BEAVERS CLUB - Safety issues or 90s approach to childhood?

[Alelou]

Hi 👋 my 6 year old son recently joined Beavers and is having a brilliant time. But I can’t help but feel uneasy about the approach to safety during the sessions. It seems the gate outside the hut is left open and the front door to the hut is also open so anyone can walk in at any time although I’m sure the leaders would notice if a kid walked out. At the end of the session kids just scramble and run around, running outside to go and play in the playground but no one is checking if the right parents are taking the right kids.

I don’t know if I’m being affected by too many scary headlines but I find it hard to relax when he’s in the club.

For those have kids in beavers is this all normal?

My friend said her rainbows is the same and my husband thinks I’m being ridiculous. He thinks it’s ‘relaxed’ but really good for DS. It does seem like a time warp of 90s childhood activities at Beavers which is great but the 90s approach to safety issues worry me a bit!

Am I overreacting? Thanks! X

Doesn't mean that parents shouldn't speak to volunteers about concerns though. As long as it is politely and calmly. Sometimes when "things have always happened that way", people don't think about them as much as they should.

There has been a real focus on Risk Assessment over the last 5 or 6 years or so and all Leaders should have tightened up on the formality of what should always have been done, but if it isn't been done safely and sensibly, then any parent (or member of the public tbh) should question safety. Safety isn't something to be compromised. If the Leaders/ group have done a RA, and a parent is complaining unreasonably, they have the paperwork to show things are fine, but if the Leaders / Group are allowing unsafe practice, then it is quite right they are made to look at what they are doing.

I say this with over 40 years volunteering behind me.
Safety is very different from the recent thread about 'my child didn't get a badge' - at which point I agree with you.

I'm a Guide leader so older age group. We always have an adult to see the girls out but as they are 10-14 it's more to check that everyone walks out sensibly and to sense check any walking home alone (as well as reminding them to be careful on the road)

We've always locked the door in our current hall but used to open at the end so parents could wait inside. Since Stockport our Risk Assessment is updated that we leave it locked until the end of the session with the key in the door. We also have fire exits. The risk is low but families have entrusted us with their daughters.

DS Cubs also keeps external door locked and leader sees them out. They're pretty laid back about some stuff but they're good at this.

I'm a Rainbows leader and since Southport we lock the door once all Rainbows have arrived. It's not a fire risk as its one of those that can be opened easily from inside just by turning the handle (but needs a code to open from outside when locked). We are all DBS checked but even so we do our best to not be alone with a child - if one needs to be taken to the toilet we try to take at least one other. We have to do safeguarding and first aid training every 3 years. At home time we let the parents in to collect their kids, and a leader stands by the door to make sure no child runs out into the car park - even with parents coming in to collect their children they often don't seem too worried about holding their hands! We find that quite hard to understand. Sometimes we 'remind' the girls at hometime about holding hands near busy roads, but we're really telling the parents.

When my dc were in cubs they locked the door once all the kids were there and didn't unlock it again until it was time for pick up, then they made sure a person was there to collect each child. I wouldn't have been happy unless this was the case tbh, it's that was in schools also, for a good reason. I don't understand why anyone else would think anything else is acceptable.

Being volunteer led doesn’t make it exempt from criticism. The two kids group I chair are both entirely volunteer run, but that wouldn’t make low standards or poor risk assessments ok. One is dealt with by OFSTED in the same way as any other set up offering holiday childcare.

if the door being unlocked is part of their risk assessment that’s fair enough. If it hasn’t been properly risk assessed, or is just open because that’s the way it’s always been done, the OP is quite right to query it.

Agreed (ex Cub leader, current Explorers leader).

They should have risk assessments for all their activities, including arrival.

That sounds quite slack. My dc's beaver leaders were ruthless with safety and making sure children were given to the right parent. I even had a day out with them and were impressed how fun but also how switched on they all were.

Cubs on the other hand were bloody awful. My kids left early after one bad incident. Those leaders were idiots.

Ours is a bit stricter parents have to physically pick up children from a room in the building

technically you could kidnap a child but this would be difficult as all the faces are familiar-

ifs quire normal though to take an extra child home or for my own to go home with a different parent which is helpful to us as the car park is a nightmare and it brings down the number of cars battling to park

I run a hall used for clubs, there’s a bolt they turn so nobody can get in once everyone has arrived but kids could let themselves out, it cannot be deadbolted for fire escape reasons. If a child is a flight risk they need extra care, one dc comes with a carer and they have an older (16 year old) who supports a dc with Down syndrome as a volunteer

I understand what you're saying about a "baddy" only needing the once but that's why a parent/volunteer without a valid DBS cannot be left unsupervised with the children. The idea behind checking people if they volunteer more than twice is because the more frequently they help, the more they are able to establish a trusting relationship with a child.

Yes they will all be DBS checked. I am doing a purely administrative volunteer role for scouting where I never meet a child and I need a DBS from scouting, even though I am a GP and already have one!

I'm a Brownie leader and it sounds a bit slack to me. We lock the door once all the girls have arrived and only let them go at the end of the evening when we can see a parent or designated adult. I expect parents to tell us if someone different to usual is collecting and I expect the girls to know who they are going home with. I have had Brownies in the past where there is a restraining order preventing contact with Dad so it is vital to make sure they are being released to the correct person.

These sort of thread shows why I would never volunteer for one these groups. So much risk and so little gain.

Yes, even as a leader with an enhanced DBS, you should never put yourself in the situation of being alone with a single child - you should try to make sure you have a second adult or second child with you.

I'm older and it actually feels more abnormal to be locking our children up as though they are prisoners.
Freedom is a great thing to have.

I don't disagree but that's not a risk you take with other people's children when you have a responsibility for safeguarding them.

But if locking the door doesn't affect their experience (or more specifically, restrict them in some way) is it really taking away any freedom? To my mind that would be not allowing children to those clubs in the first place.

Locking it seems a reasonable balance for children to maintain some independence (getting out of the house with friends, away from parents) whilst mitigating against a few different types of foreseeable risk.

This is what I meant.

If the hall has no fire exit doors that can just be pushed then you can't lock the doors.

There is also a hazard if a door is labelled Fire Exit but is locked. This happened at the hall my DS used to go to church youth group at - the automatic doors have a Fire Exit sign but were locked to prevent children leaving.

My DS had an absence seizure and we needed to leave but the doors are a double set of doors with an airlock. The inner door opened with a push button and I pushed it and went through so that DS could follow but it shut and I was stuck between the two.
This could have happened in a fire - children would have naturally gone to the Fire Exit sign and got stuck.

At the hall where my DCs now do Scouts there are two fire exits - one push bar and one with a handle that's high up (too high for most Beavers).
Neither can be locked but parents come in to the hall to take children home.

Beaver leader here. Since the incident in Southport, we have to lock the door now but I’m not sure if this came from Scout HQ or our hall owner. You could always raise your concernswith the Group Lead Volunteer and say you think it’s a risk. If they don’t take you seriously then I’d be moving to another group.

Our scout hut door is locked but it's glass/looks flimsy, you have to go into the hall to collect your child but it's chaotic so I suppose you are trusted to take the right child! Most of the activities my kids do have locked doors but some are open sometimes, and another we do is in a big church where the door is open as theres lots of activities going on

My DD dance class locks the door once all the kids are in and parents queue up outside and she shouts out the names. She won’t let a child go out if no adult is there for them. It is a horrible busy carpark though and often dark so I feel the main reason is road safety, but I’m glad no one could enter during their class. The hall has fire doors that only open from the inside.

Also a key part of scouting is the outdoors so even at this time of year they could well be in the garden or at the park or local woodland where there are no fences or doors.

Exactly. If you want your child behind locked doors all the time don't send them to Scouting or Guiding.

And that is why, at least in Girlguiding, the adult:child ratio is different if you are outside and why you do risk assessments.

I'm not expecting random others to be inside my meeting place so my risk assessment reflects that. I expect to be able to let the girls use the toilet, safe in the knowledge that a random stranger hasn't wandered in there without my noticing.

When we are outside, I expect members of the public to be present so my risk assessment reflects that. More adults present and supervised toilet trips for example.

It's about reducing the risks for the given situation, not necessarily eliminating them completely.

Same in Finland but we don't have events like Stockport (had school attacks but by students so they'd be able to enter anyway) which rather changes the risk assessment.

No locked doors at DS's cub scouts but there's only one door to the outside so it cannot be locked for fire safety reasons (which is definitely a bigger risk) and no one is handing children over as such but I was late to pick up on the first week (read the finish time wrong) and then they were keen to hand over personally and were looking after him outside while the older group arrived. They are outside a lot though, where obviously there's no gates or doors and still the same number of leaders but they aren't as young as beavers (7 is the youngest they can start) so not such a risk