Do south/middle Americans see themselves as colonialists? And slave owners?

[YouAndMeDays]

Watching Bad Bunny's Super Bowl half time show got me thinking. The Spanish and Portuguese were colonialists in South and Middle America, just like the English, Dutch and French in North America. They also benefitted from slavery. And they decimated the indigenous peoples.

Do they feel bad about this? They always seem to come across as feeling like victims of the USA. Are they paying reparations to the Africans they traded? And the indigenous people they more or less wiped out?

Is it because they didn't do as well as the USA, that this doesn't seem to be a question for them?

Why in earth would they? Have you checked your family tree to ensure your ancestors weren’t involved in colonialism?

"Didn't do as well as the USA" - in what way exactly?

I've spent a fair bit of time in Argentina, Chile and Uruguay and arguably all are safer, have more affordable healthcare and offer a very good quality of life - when compared to the USA. Actually I would move to Uruguay tomorrow in all honesty. It's very progressive and incomes are high. I could rent a two bed apartment in Montevideo for about £600, compared to £900-£1,000 in Swansea.

Never having watched either Bad Bunny or the Superbowl, I'm not entirely sure I understand your train of thought or what you are asking. And by Middle America, do you mean Central America?

Are the Africans who traded other Africans into slavery paying them reparations I wonder? (I’ll follow your example of talking as if people alive today are the ones who did the enslaving, which is very strange but seems to be your way of thinking).

Or is it only certain races who are responsible for the actions of dead people of the same race? (I know it is)

What she’s saying (and I’m not endorsing or criticising) is that some people from Central America are descended from colonialists who came from Europe (Spain in the case of Puerto Rico where Bad Bunny is from) and decimated the indigenous population. So she was wondering whether they view themselves that way - as the product of colonialism. In the same way that some people from the US or Australia may discuss their colonial history and the treatment of Native Americans, and Aboriginals respectively.

I’m don’t think they do and I’m not sure why they would. Pretty soon I imagine white people in North America will have stopped feeling bad about it too.

You’re making the mistake of looking at a fleeting intra-class struggle in a particular time and place, and imagining it’s: (a) universal; (b) sincere; and (c) permanent.

Yes, but what's it got to do with the superbowl?

Also, Puerto Rico is in North America.

Yes and was annexed by the USA quite some time ago and remains a territory of the USA.

Gosh, what a familiar posting style.

The people currently living in all of the old European colonial countries and the old colonies have not lived through it for even a single day of their life. I do not think anyone needs to bear the blame of those that lived before them. That is quite a crazy idea. But what is needed is to learn from history and never repeat it again. And sort any remaining issues promptly and fairly.
But I have not watched that series you refer to, so maybe I am missing something in your post. Because it makes zero sense to me, to be honest.

Judging by X, no. Apparently the Spanish empire wasn't colonialism, or something.

Both can be true. Their ancestors can be part of the slave trade AND their nations can be victimised by modern political pressure.

Why do you you think anyone needs to repent the actions of their ancestors, out of interest?

Some countries in the region have extremely big populations of indigenous people eg Guatemala, Bolivia and Peru.

No they should not feel bad about it, nor should the white USA citizens. However I agree there should be a bit more awareness in the context of learning history, it seems to be wrongly presumed the African slave trade benefitted white English speaking people only.

If anything the difference proves the point that what happened historically isn't the issue today, it's how it was dealt with subsequently. Why is the wealth gap between black and white USA citizens so stark when the same can't be said for Brazilians or Argentinians? It's much more to do with institutional racism in the past 100 years than the slave history. *disclaimer, I don't know much about Brazil or Argentina other than my brief experience as a tourist so I may be wrong about racial segregation there, I'm just basing that on my observations.

Argentina is an interesting case actually because it had a sizeable black population which pretty much disappeared, and it isn’t really documented how or why. It seems from what I’ve read that they were simply absorbed into the white population through intermarriage.

I've also seen that process described as a form of genocide, so sometimes you just can’t win.

It was a colonial empire.

The English Dutch and French don't feel bad about this.

Only those "progressives" who wear their heart on their sleeves do.

Do you actually know anything about the UK's fight to end global slavery? I suspect not.

Of course I do.

My question was not about the English, Dutch or French. (Although it would be good to know how the French feel about Quebec. Do they feel guilty?)

My question was about Central America and South America. What happened to the Incans and the Mayans?

There have been many interesting replies on this thread. I will catch up with them tomorrow.

The Maya people migrated due to drought, famine and warfare. There are literally millions of Maya descendants living in Central America. (Maya not Mayan - Mayan relates to language).

The Inca did suffer more from invasion, in particular due to new diseases. But they also had their own civil war just prior to invasion which weakened them and meant it was easier for the conquistadors to destroy their leadership. But also there were people who were pre-Inca who teamed up with the Spanish because they saw them as liberators from Inca rule because the Inca were not the indigenous people of the land - the Wari, Tiwanaku, Chimú and Chachapoyas to name a few.

I think too much Horrible Histories has led people to having a one-dimensional view of what actually happened to the Maya and Inca.

You could look up slavery (and human sacrifice) in Maya society too OP and ponder whether descendants of the Maya feel guilty for that.

I never said it wasn't. I never mentioned it at all.

The history of the slave trade in Zanzibar and the actions of the Sultan of Zanzibar make interesting reading. Particularly when you find out who it was who forced him to end it. Quite eye-opening actually.

Sort of related to what you’re talking about OP - from a European standpoint I find it striking that there is racism in the US towards Hispanic people who look like they have more or less 100% European ancestry. Here in London someone speaking with a Spanish accent is just another European, but in the US they would be racialised and subject to discrimination, possibly targeted by ICE. The closest thing we have here I think is prejudice against Eastern Europeans.

I was adding to your comment, not challenging it, sorry if it came across that way. The original post referenced Bad Bunny who is Puerto Rican, and at least one other poster appeared to assume that Puerto Rico is in Central America.