How to tell if DS will be ok starting school?

[Givemepickles]

DS turns 4 at the end of August. Due to start Reception a week after his birthday. I'm finding it hard to judge if I should delay him a year and start him in Reception at just turned 5 instead of 4. My LA allows this.

I'm hearing a lot recently about children finding Y1 and Y3 really hard and that issues mostly showed up then. Or some people saying their DC even struggled with Reception. But because he's my eldest I'm finding it hard to know what to look for and what will be different between pre-school and school. Can school mums please advise? Obviously I know there will only be one teacher or a teacher and TA compared to a 1 to 8 ratio in preschool. But what actually is it that children struggle to cope with and how can I tell if he's ready?

He is very sensitive (or you might say highly strung) and always has been so I think that's his personality and I worry about that if there is pressure. He's great socially, good at sharing and taking turns but all his friends are the young ones in the year. He doesn't make friends with the older kids much so don't know if that means he's less mature that some other summerborns. I don't want him in school and hating it and then there being little I can do to help at that stage when I could have delayed him at the start.

I don't want this to be a thread on the pros and cons of delaying as I've read that to death. Just want to know what DC can't cope with at school or need to cope with to help me judge. Thanks!

Honestly I would always make the decision to hold back a summer born boy. He may seem ready and even if he seems confident and capable in my experience he won't be disadvantaged by waiting another year.

You can never know at this age if they will find KS1/KS2 difficult but you can try to mitigate it being more difficult and giving him that extra year will help him with this.

Things he may find difficult:

• long hours every day
• pen grip, fine motor skills, writing
• being able to sit and focus for long enough periods to learn well
• social skills (especially if he now plays with younger children), navigating friendships, possible bullying or if he's a bit immature in the way the okay kids are not
• getting dressed, undressed for PE, putting on shoes, coat etc.
• being middle to average in class due to being young, can be damaging to self confidence if child is intelligent/ highly strung and compares themselves (depends on child)
• problems can build up over years. My niece is August born and went through serious MH issues in Y10 and Y12. She's never struggled academically, excelled actually, but I think maybe the emotional maturity was just not there to handle certain pressures through school from friendships to exams
• last to have 18th birthday - can't purchase alcohol, last to get provisional license to learn how to drive.

Older kids, not 'okay kids'

I would almost look at it the other way round. Do you think he will outgrow nursery in 6 months? Or if you were told he's be there another 18 months, how much would you worry that he would get bored and want something more structured, stimulating, or just "bigger" than the 4 walls of nursery?

The summer term before school can be a tricky one for some 4yo. Maybe it's just the change that is coming and everyone trying to gee them up about how exciting school will be then nothing happens for ages, but my whole NCT group (Oct babies) felt our preschoolers were quite challenging that last summer before school and needed to be kept busy. It's not scientific but I would say if you are not getting vibes that he needs to move on from preschool, maybe he is not ready to move on from preschool. Hard to judge when he is barely 3.5 though, as he has a huge chunk of his life still to happen between now and Sept.

Would he definitely be able to stay in the lower year right the way through school, including into secondary & for GCSEs? I would want to be really sure on that.

The big step ups I noticed were Y2-3 and the end of Y5 to Y6 but then by the mid point of Y6 it settled down. Generally speaking, whenever they feel a bit out of their depth, it might be a few weeks of struggle but then they get back into the swing of things after a while.

If they're happy with their cohort and will be going with them into reception, I'd probably keep it simple and move him up to school. There will always be a youngest in the class so schools know how to work out issues from that standpoint.

If you want more specific or specialised information about what your son is expected to be able to do by the end of the key stage, go and talk to his key member of staff at the nursery. I think the Early Years Framework goes from nursery to the end of reception so they should have a good idea of whether he's ready to move into the final year of that up at school or not.

Both the youngest and oldest end of a class have their own challenges. It might take a few weeks longer for a younger one to catch up but then an older one might get bored and feel held back at the other end of the year. It all really depends on the child, the parents and the school.

Can you speak to someone at the school to get feedback/info there - is there a member of staff who specifically manages the nursery-reception transition? I don't know if you would be able to speak to the SENCo to get their input?

Can you speak to anyone at nursery to see what their experience is of previous children who have had a similar temperament and how they got on?

Apologies if this is not at all how the English system works because I am much more up to date with a system where I live (abroad) but the main shock and confusion I had with DS2 starting school was that all the communication before school had been "He'll be fine!!" from people who didn't know him, and "Er.... let's see how he gets on?" from people who did, and apparently I didn't really interpret this properly, because literally from the first day they were saying he was so extremely outside what they could cope with that I just felt utterly blindsided by it, I felt like somebody should have told me that he wouldn't cope with school. I assumed that the fact they didn't say this meant that the school would have resources/skills to help him settle.

I still don't really know if it's just generally very unpredictable, whether DS has a very unusual profile they hadn't come across before or whether I did badly misinterpret what I was being told originally.

We didn't defer our summer born boy and he has been fine in reception so far. But it's so subjective. My reasons were:

• really nice cohort and he'd know quite a few since being babies, no one else defering
• he would have been the oldest in pre school and his preschool had 2 year olds to 4s in the same room so I was worried he wouldn't have enough kids his age. Also he's quite big for his age.
• his school is very into play and child led learning and mix up the years a lot anyway so I felt they could meet different needs
• I was due to be on mat leave and it's been great being off while he's just started school as its a huge jump in admin!

That said I can see the five year old girls in particular are streets ahead of him. But I hope he will catch up.

I'd personally talk to the school and preschool and see if you can get a read on the different options. Some people have v strong opinions about defering.

Things you need to make your decision is already in your post. He is sensitive, he makes friends with younger kids, not the older ones. If he is the youngest in the class - who would he make friends with?
And in addition - especially for boys, it'll matter being the smallest in the pecking order. Boys are much more physical in the way they play and interact. And all research show that male self-confidence in adulthood is linked to how confident/sporty/popular they were in early and middle school. The youngest in the year will unlikely to be picked first for teams, or picked for any "leadership" roles, or be popular.

Here is your answer, really. If all the research on how summer-borns lag in educational attainment in the UK has not convinced you already. Personally for me the with differences persisting though to A-levels results would have been enough. Why put your own child at a disadvantage?

For some strange reason people in the UK (or maybe it's MN specific) - love to brag about not holding back their August babies. And how they struggled, but persevered. It's a strange sort of needless stoicism that people seem to be proud about. While in many other places - for e.g. - parents tend to take the opportunity to make it a bit easier for their kids by holding them back.
And - if the rules and LA allow delaying summer borns - WHY not? Is there any research saying it is not good for the kids?

People who say - what if the child is bored in the nursery school, "outgrows" it - must realise that in most of the developed world kids do not go to school and sit at desks at 4. Most 4-6 yo largely are in settings similar to UK's nursery schools - where they play and don't do a whole lot of learning. And they certainly are not learning to read and write at 4 - the way the UK kids are.
For comparison: UK schools take most of R and Y1 to teach most of kids to read fluently. While at 6, when many other countries teach their kids to read - it takes them a few months. Simply because 6yos are much more ready for it.

So - in your place, OP - I'd be asking myself the opposite question. What are the reasons for sending my barely 4yo into a formal educational setting vs letting him play and have fun for another year.

As PP said the biggest factor should be can he take another year of preschool?
My August born had had enough of preschool so there wasn’t really another option, it was difficult at first. She got very tired, struggled to dress herself for PE but got lots of help, was find academically and was very happy in reception. Year 1 is a gradual change in the school mine go to from learning through play to sitting down more.
I have a summer born boy as well but with SEN and he was fine going at normal school starting age. He hadn’t really got how friends work in preschool but he did in reception as the other kids taught him! He also couldn’t talk very well but that improved in reception as he got a lot of extra help.
I would go for it as long as the school are on board with age related expectations and make allowances such as help with dressing after pe.

@Sashya yes absolutely I realise that. Where did I say YR is mainly about reading and writing?

You see it in Y6s too. It's a social thing, I don't think it's a book learning thing.

My son was 4 in late August, and started school a few days later.

Preschool said he was more than ready (they actually said he would have coped a whole
year before). School did settling sessions, and said he was very clearly ready (they know him well, as his brother is in Y4).

Some of the folks above have really odd ideas about being a bit younger than some of the kids in a class. He’s in the most advanced group for phonics / English, and joins y1 for some of their maths lessons. He’s popular, manages to self-regulate well in class, and is actually one of the bigger kids in the class. Sometimes he’s absolutely knackered at the end of the week though.

The school probably matters too - ours is a small village school with mixed year group classes, although Yr R have their own room. They mostly play. And they started phonics in preschool. They are all encouraged to play across year groups, and have friends therein.

I’d say he was emotionally and physically a little more ready than my Autumn born elder son, but a little less academically ready. Mostly because they’re individuals, rather than their age.

Speak to the professionals who know him, and family / friends. Ask for their honest view, warts n all. And speak with the school - ours are happy for the deferral decision to come right up to the wire, so I don’t think it’s a call you have to make now.

That you’re thinking so much about it means you’ll almost certainly make the right choice for your son. Good luck!

I don't have an answer but wanted to add some few points based on my personal experience.
First is that it might really depend on the school? I keep reading on MN of children not ready to give up playing or sitting all day learning, but in all honesty this has never been the case in my DS reception class. It was all very much play based, with activities very very similar to preschool (he went to a different private preschool, not linked to his current school). The learning was 30 minutes of phonics in the morning and 15 minutes of math in the afternoon, neither of them done sitting on chair/at the table. Their classroom was organized exactly like a nursery, with different activities in every corner, a large outside play area only for reception children, private toilets accessible only through their classroom, a teacher that was only teaching R children every year and on PE days they would simply go in wearing their PE kits (that applied to all classes, they don't need to get changed). Parents were kept informed via an app, with regular photos and report quite similarly to the way things were managed in preschool.
In all honesty, the leap between nursery and school was not a big deal - also because DS was in nursery full time so we never experienced the additional tiredness associated to stay longer hours (if anything, his days were shorter!).

Another point is that in DS class (now in Y2) it seems there is quite a large number of spring/summer born and no deferrals. As the group of parents is quite close I often hear conversations about how the youngest are doing socially etc and everything seems just fine. We have young children who are taller than the oldest, older children who struggled with friendships etc. I know this might be just a sample and not the average, but food for thoughts!

I’d defer. Why wouldn’t you? It’s so useful to be one of the eldest rather than the very youngest when they are older. I wouldn’t be so concerned about the next few years but rather when he is a teen and young adult.

I have an August born boy going to school aged 4 this September too.

Honestly the only thing that has made me doubt that decision is the endless posts on Mumsnet of people trying to defer their child!

My greatest worry is they will struggle or be behind and then decide they dislike learning etc. My solution to this is that I will be hot on helping them, doing whatever it is they’re teaching at school at home too to reinforce it. They are already quite into their letters and numbers, so that’s a good start.

The school has them go in wearing PE kit on PE days. They already go to nursery full time and so are used to the structure of the day / long days / being in a group. Several children from their nursery are likely to be at the same school.

I think people have generally gotten really OTT about th whole thing - you’re going to face challenges of some sort in your life, work out how to manage them not just immediately take the nuclear option to avoid it.

A further thought is that we will aim for grammar or private secondary and they don’t like it apparently!

I dont have an answer as i dont know your child...just my experience. I had a end july boy, end september girl then a beg of August girl. They all went to mainstream nursery age 3 and then onto reception age 4. No issues whatsoever with any of them except the middle child being almost 4 starting nursery... She was ready much earlier in everyone's opinion.

I would defer unless you think he's going to cope really, really well. If there is any doubt, defer.

Things he could struggle with:

Being the smallest/youngest in the class - he's likely smaller then they others with less developed motor skills, being slower/less good at climbing/less coordinated etc. can be really tough, particularly later on when they start to notice this stuff more.

Being the least able in the class - just because he's a year behind the older ones developmentally. It a real kick to the confidence to constantly be the one struggling to catch up/struggling to understand.

Being less emotionally mature than the others - again just because he's the youngest.

Then you have all the things that they all struggle with to some extent - the long hours, the rules, concentration, following instructions, responsibility etc.

Countries where children start formal schooling later almost all have better results than we do. ALL children should be starting school later.

Every child is different, but DD was youngest in the year (66 in year). She was a little nervous of the playground to start with and slow eating her lunch, but initially frustrated as she wasn't learning or doing anything she didn't know=hadn't done before. She was absolutely find.

Someone mentioned changing for PE, at DD's school they only took off shoes and socks for movement in the classroom.

I was a SAHM, so DD was very much under my influence and not progression during nursery. She always has friends, equally held her own with peers. She has one accident during year 1 as she couldn't get out of fancy dress costume quick enough, but we were told she cleaned and changed herself without any support.

It was never a consideration for me because my son is March born, so very mid year. I guess the questions I would ask you are:

• What has your son been taught this year that he hasn't yet learnt?
• Socially, how does he fit in? Does he seem young compared to his peers?
• Emotionally how does he fit in? Does he seem young compared to his peers?
• Physically, self-care wise how does he fit in?

I support the idea of letting summer born kids defer, but equally kids vary a lot. If you take a group of 3-4 year olds, it's likely some will be easily identifiable as 3 year olds by their skills and behaviour, some will be easily identifiable as 3 year olds by their skills and behaviour, and some will be in the middle. Where would your son be? If he is an easily identifiable 3 year old, holding him back is probably great, if he would probably be presumed to be one of the 4 year olds - he's probably school ready even though he's young.

Have you read the goverment report on the impact if being a summer born? The academic difference is still there at GCSE level.

I chose for my summer born child to start reception when she turned 5. I wanted her to thrive in school.

I would defer. Some children no matter how bright they are aren’t ready emotionally. Full days are exhausting for little ones

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7b29e5ed915d3ed9062971/DFE-RR017.pdf

My dd was an early September baby and she was so ready for school when her preschool buddies moved up. If she had been born a few weeks earlier she’d have been in the year above with her many of friends. She was reading a little, and could write all her letters; she could dress and undress and was potty trained and fed herself independently with a knife and fork.

But that year in preschool did her no harm.

In your shoes I’d hold my son back a year - there’s no harm in it, aside from potentially the childcare fees!

My son is a summer born, we didn’t delay and he’s found reception really hard. We didn’t put too much thought into delaying as he isn’t as young in the year as your DC and got on quite well socially.

This is what he’s found hard-
-Following instructions as part of a big group.
-Following instructions the first time he is asked.
-Having the impulse control not to do stupid things.
-Navigating the school
-Being able to a.remember and b.explain to adults what has happened if he’s been hurt.
-Being away from his family and nursery.
-He cried almost every morning for the whole of the first term. When I told him about the Christmas holidays he literally cried with happiness. It was heart breaking as the parent.
-When the children are graded he is down as not achieving the expected level in every area because he is almost a year younger than some of the kids and it’s the level they’re expected to reach by the end of reception. They are pretty sure he’ll get there by the end of the year but again as the parent it’s shit to be told that your usually happy, bright, inquisitive and capable child is underperforming and being told that they just need to mature a bit more.

He found the structure really hard to start with, he was able to sit and draw or colour before starting school but he literally spent the whole summer outside before starting which meant all the sitting in a classroom hit him really hard.

So that’s what it looks like to have a summer born child struggle with reception! At 4.5 and halfway through reception he does finally seem to be enjoying it more.

I didn’t hold him back because I was worried on the impact it would have on him participating in sports (we are a sporty family), what it would mean for the 11+ and secondary school generally. I don’t know if I regret it, time will tell.

But I am very very glad that my second DC is in autumn baby and I am currently pregnant very much on purpose with an October baby. I think being not far off a year older when they start reception will make such a big difference for them.

Hi op. Reception children do the same syllabus as preschoolers & most of their learning is done through play & definitely not sitting at desks.
I have worked at both preschools & with a variety of years at primary schools. I know of very few children that have struggled so much in Reception that we thought they should have stayed behind, whereas quite a few children get kept behind & are bored & disappointed that their friends are allowed to start school.
What do the staff say about your ds? Do they recommend him repeating the year?

It’s a tough one as you don’t really know how he will be in years to come. I have girls and they’re winter and spring born so haven’t been in your position. A friend of dd1s is an August born boy that we have known since pre school and he’s always got on just fine. A little immature in the early years but left primary as one of the more able kids.

for another perspective I am an early September baby. I was so done with school by year 11 and being almost 17 that I completely disengaged and basically stopped going. I didn’t do well despite being bright and September born. If I could have taken my GCSEs a year before I would have done much better as I hadn’t completely lost the will with it at that point.

at the end of the day you know your son, but no one can possibly know at this point whether your choice will be the right one. You just have to make the best decision you can now with what you currently know.