How to tell if DS will be ok starting school?

[Givemepickles]

DS turns 4 at the end of August. Due to start Reception a week after his birthday. I'm finding it hard to judge if I should delay him a year and start him in Reception at just turned 5 instead of 4. My LA allows this.

I'm hearing a lot recently about children finding Y1 and Y3 really hard and that issues mostly showed up then. Or some people saying their DC even struggled with Reception. But because he's my eldest I'm finding it hard to know what to look for and what will be different between pre-school and school. Can school mums please advise? Obviously I know there will only be one teacher or a teacher and TA compared to a 1 to 8 ratio in preschool. But what actually is it that children struggle to cope with and how can I tell if he's ready?

He is very sensitive (or you might say highly strung) and always has been so I think that's his personality and I worry about that if there is pressure. He's great socially, good at sharing and taking turns but all his friends are the young ones in the year. He doesn't make friends with the older kids much so don't know if that means he's less mature that some other summerborns. I don't want him in school and hating it and then there being little I can do to help at that stage when I could have delayed him at the start.

I don't want this to be a thread on the pros and cons of delaying as I've read that to death. Just want to know what DC can't cope with at school or need to cope with to help me judge. Thanks!

Wow, thank you for all the replies. I really appreciate the thoughtful responses and questions. I'll try and answer as many as I can.

@Criteria16 I agree it depends on the school. Our catchment school has them sitting at desks from Y1 and we will likely get given this school which may lead me to delaying. Our preferred school is one form entry and continues learning through play until Y2. The Head has a real understanding of the importance of play in general so this is a big reason we want this school. We're unlikely to get it though and will need to see if we get a spot on the waiting list.

DS currently goes to pre-school 3 days a week so it would be a step up for him but I think he'd handle it fine if it was all play. He does 8.30 - 5.30 at pre-school so school will be a shorter day at least for Reception. It's the desk sitting from Y1 that worries me more. He's incredibly active and always has been. He has always stood out in that way and I couldn't take him to baby classes like I have with DS2 because he did nothing but climb and scream if he couldn't climb up things so it wasn't enjoyable at all.

Thank you this was really helpful. Secondary is a big worry for me both academically and socially with peer pressure and just that element of losing his childhood at just turned 11 (that may seem dramatic but from what I've seen children's happiness reduces dramatically once they start secondary). I'm sorry your niece struggled with her mental health.

I'm not sure about his pen grip or writing. At the moment he just does lines and squiggles so there isn't any writing to judge. But that's another thing is sometimes I see the drawings other children come out of nursery with and they are drawing faces and stick men which is currently miles away from what DS can do. But I don't know if things like that matter much anyway?

I'm in Scotland so different dates but I didn't defer my winter baby. She wasn't quite the youngest in the class, though close but she doesn't make friends easily and had a friend to start primary school with which was important for me (she was at private nursery so didn't know anyone else). She was super bored with nursery and as she's ND, found nursery quite difficult as it's so loud and chaotic. She was super happy from day 1 of P1 and loved primary school straight the way through.

BUT high school has been a very different situation. She's doing super well academically but socially is a struggle. She'll also finish high school at 17 and will be a young 17 so we are considering a gap year or college or something like that as I think she will struggle being away from home AND being unable to socialise with many uni kids just for being under 18. So when I consider the longer range implications I wonder if it would have been better to have a slower start. But I think we would have paid for it at the time as she'd have been so, so bored and unhappy being at nursery another year. And maybe high school is challenging at 11 or 12 or any time really!

A few people have mentioned that we should definitely delay and others say to send him in and schools cope well with all abilities. I'm so torn!

I completely agree with almost all reasons for delaying children. I think the English education system is poorly designed and detrimental to our children. Also, England is an outlier to most other Western countries. I am Scottish and started school at 5.5 like many other children. Delaying in Scotland is normal and expected. Having children going through the English system is challenging as there is so much judgement on delaying, unlike almost every other country! Because of that I think a real downside to delaying is giving your child a 'difference'. I don't want him to be picked on or if he does well I don't want him or others to say it's only because he's "held back a year" (not my views, just what I've seen others say). I also don't know anyone who has delayed so it would be a big decision.

In addition, my son does not show any interest in academic learning like reading, writing and numbers. A few people have said their summer born was learning to read or desperate to go to school etc and I can absolutely see that being the case with DS2 who is also summer born. But DS1 has always been 'different', very active, very, very emotional, totally distraught if he has to eat certain foods or something touches his hands or mouth, used to smash his head in frustration so hard he'd cut and bruise. He injures himself constantly and I do mean constantly and is sensitive to pain even when it's a small bump. So those are reasons that lead me to think delaying would help him mature and maybe become more resilient before starting school. Particularly this could benefit him in secondary with exams and friendships.

However, DH and I also feel that he's likely to dislike school at any age but excel in sports. He's been physically advanced from a baby onwards and it seems like all his development goes there! He can easily hold his own in terms of gross motor skills, running etc. That's made us think that sports will be his thing at school and that we shouldn't do anything to jeopardise that, like have him playing out of cohort. If sport is the one thing he loves then we want him doing that with his friends in his year and he may not be able to at secondary (primary we've been assured is fine).

Also, he's absolutely enormous so the typical August born concerns are a bit different. At age 2 he was wearing size 5-6 year clothes. Luckily at 3.5 he's still in size 5-6 so I'm hoping is slowing down a little. DH is 6'6 so he gets it from there. He will ridiculously stand out if going down a cohort and that could lead quickly to children in secondary asking if he's out of year. Again, we're worried about bullying and him feeling different.

Lastly, we don't expect DS2 to need to delay as he's a completely different child. He's so different that he almost makes me worry about DS1 even more because if DS2 is the 'normal' child then how will DS1 manage with all these other children who can sit and focus? DS2 has much better attention skills already at 20 months than DS1 has at 3.5. So how do we justify delaying one and not the other without DS1 thinking his parents thought he couldn't cope or that his brother is better than him?

I’m a late august birthday and was absolutely fine. I would have been pretty annoyed as an 18 year old to still have another year of school, I was quite ready to go to university at 18 and 2 weeks. My dh is also august born, again started school at 4, everyone did then. I don’t think the choice helps, they should have a fixed cut off whenever it’s decided to be (Scotland is earlier in the year)

@GivemepicklesI think drawing is an indication of being able to manipulate a pen to form letters and copy shapes. Whilst it's not essential to have this, most children can write their name by Reception. The pen grip is whether he holds it in a fist or a pinch hold. Again, not all children are doing this by Reception, but it's better for them if they are.

Personally, I think the longer term impact into secondary is more important than whether he'll be bored for another year in nursery or if he'll cope for the Reception year (which is still EYFS so not too hard). That is very hard to judge but I think on balance, you are unlikely to harm a child by delaying a year whereas you could harm them by not.

@stichguru Thanks for the questions - really helpful.

• What has your son been taught this year that he hasn't yet learnt?

It's hard to say. I can tell he is learning numbers and on a couple of occasions he's counted correctly 1 - 10. He says other numbers randomly like 18 but doesn't count them. He recognises number 0 but that seems to be it. Not sure if that's standard at this age?

• Socially, how does he fit in? Does he seem young compared to his peers?

He really excels socially, it's definitely a strong point. By that I mean he includes others, he asks to play, he likes to follow rules and take turns and share (not with his brother of course...). But he's young in the sense that he cries so easily and so frequently compared to his peers. He pretty much ignores the 4 year olds in his year and all his friends are other summer borns but then he could end up in a class with many other summer borns too or just children who are less mature.

• Emotionally how does he fit in? Does he seem young compared to his peers?

Yes emotionally definitely young.

• Physically, self-care wise how does he fit in?

I'd say he's good with that. He's fully toilet trained for a year now but needs a bit of help with wiping still. That kind of thing is the problem because he has no interest in learning how to wipe or break the toilet paper off or anything like that. But otherwise good. Still in nappies at night. Feeds himself fine at nursery but at home a meal can take over an hour with constant reminders to eat but I think that's normal from the sounds of it. He can dress himself but often ends in injury as he crashes about so much - we had a trip to a&e yesterday for example just from him putting on his coat and smacking down head first on the floor knocking his front teeth. He can't do zips yet either.

I am not in UK, so can't comment on the system. I teach pre school in a 2 yr cycle so your DS would be in my year 2 in September theoretically. These are some things we would expect a year 2 student to learn throughout the year, in other words these are things DS should be doing before starting school, if starting early.

• change shoes unaided
• hang up coat, hat and any other personal items. Put water bottle or lunchbox away
• toilet completely unaided and be able to enter and leave the toilet area alone
• open and close lunch box, open any lunch items such as yoghurt etc. Use a spoon or fork.
• tidy up properly, understanding what goes where.
• hold a pencil or crayon and draw recognisable images
• copy a straight line, draw a circle
• recognise his name
• understand and follow a 3 part instruction.
• approach adults or children and ask verbally for something (as opposed to just standing there mute which is what younger children often do)
• understand social rules ie sharing, gentle hands, inside voices
• resolve conflict himself and not look for adult intervention - know to say no, to accept no as an answer from another child etc.
• initiate play, by approaching other children or talking an item to play with
• speak in front of a group
• answer questions and ask appropriate questions, staying on topic.
• being able to raise his hand and wait his turn, not interrupting
• Emotional regulation, not crying over nothing specific like just missing mummy etc. Able to calm himself down without intervention if upset, unless there is a reason for the upset.

@Dontlletmedownbruce thanks really helpful but I'm a bit confused if you mean DS should be able to do this by this September (just turned 4) or at the end of his first year in school, when he turns 5?

No these are skills we would expect before starting school, so in your case DS should be at this level by his 4th birthday. Many kids are, but some are 4.5 or even 5 before reaching these goals.

Also these are guidelines and based around my own experience, as I said this isn't based on a UK school ready checklist so don't take it too literally.

Defer him. If you were in Scotland and he was in the last week of the intake for the year you wouldn't even be asking the question as it's such a standard thing to do.

I have a summer born 12year old boy who I deferred so he's in year 7.

I haven't really admitted this in real life but part of me regrets it . It felt right for primary but I worry people will realise he ' should ' be in year 8 and bully him or think I held him back because he's behind etc

sport is also a bit of a pain as we have to get a dispension from the fa and submit his height and weight every year

The transfer to high school was seamless , but I still worry he will hate me for my decision when he's older .

my 2 nd child is a summer born girl , she's is from my second marriage. Part of me wants to defer but it's because I feel cheated like
missing out on time with her, I had lots of miscarriages before her so I think that's got something to do with it. Like it's all gone too fast , I'm so envious of people with autumn borns 😂

I actively tried to avoid another summer born but Mother Nature soon put me in my place ,

My daughter is a very different child to my son and seems very confident and more ready to learn than my son was.

my husband also has a summer born daughter who was done really well at school
so he's not really on board with delaying he would rather my daughter goes at 4 and see how she gets on .

she's July and i keep thinking she will be not much younger than the march / april
spring borns so it doesn't feel so bad if that makes sense 🤦🏻‍♀️

My DCs school offered a readiness check for parents who were unsure (Scotland). Don’t know what it comprised as I didn’t take up the offer (but did defer one of mine). Can you ask school or nursery to assess. One of my siblings who teaches said she’d never come across anyone who regretted deferring but plenty who regretted not so if any doubt defer.

Having read your updates I would 100% defer. He really doesn’t sound ready at all. Much kinder for him to have another year to play and mature.

At 3.5 he should be able to draw something recognisable. This really indicates he is not ready for learning how to write at all.

All his academics sounds behind. Most children can count to 10 when they are 2. This isnt to say he won’t catch up, just that he isn’t ready now.

And, I don’t mean to jump on the SEN train, but some things you say about your DS do sound as if he might have some SEN? Is this anything you have thought about before? If so, I would definitely defer. His attention span/ social-communication can only improve with an extra year and might give him enough time to be ready to learn. I might be totally wrong, nobody can tell from a few lines, and apologies if this is totally wide of the mark.

It was just that when I had my second and compared her behaviour to my eldest that I realised how “different” my eldest really was!

So different to England. In my child’s school they’re expected to be able to write their name by the end of nursery, know stage one phonics, most will blend simple words eg hat, dad and by the end of reception they’re expected to write a simple sentence with support.

That list is expected of most children before they start school in England. Obviously some will not be able to do it due to SEND which would usually be undiagnosed at that age.

Some have mentioned them struggling academically. As I said before DD didn't noticeably struggle. Moving onto GCSEs, she took 11 subjects, got 7s and a couple of 8s. There are others that would be better, but to my mind they were good results. She went onto A levels and a couple of weeks before she was 18, she had three A levels A*, A&B, as well as a full house if offers for uni.

It's not all about academics though, school provides so much more and they'll see lots if children over the years at lots of different levels and will support them.

Thank you for your comment. I know exactly what you mean about realising how different the eldest is once you have another. DS1 has been so challenging to parent, though of course I adore him, but it's been lonely too. Once I had DS2 I sort of looked around thinking wait is this what everyone else had with DS1's friends? No wonder I looked so dramatic! Sometimes we joke that DS1 is the equivalent work of about 7 DS2s... Can I ask if your eldest has SEN then?

I have considered SEN before and probably since he was about 14 months old I've been googling various issues we have with him. But I spoke to his preschool key carer recently and she said he was fine and no more issues than the other children. The way she described DS though was like she was talking about a different child. I told her the behaviours he's displayed at home and she said she's never seen anything like that except that he can be a bit particular. It was so confusing! She thought he'd be fine at school but I do question that as I don't think they ever do any follow up to see if the children they said that about were actually fine!

But that conversation with her really made me wonder what would be so different about school and if DS is fine at preschool then maybe school would be good too. DH thinks the structure could be good for him. I honestly can't decide, it feels like a lose-lose to me.

But that conversation with her really made me wonder what would be so different about school and if DS is fine at preschool then maybe school would be good too. DH thinks the structure could be good for him. I honestly can't decide, it feels like a lose-lose to me.

Honestly it probably won't be too different in reception but as you've already acknowledged that's just one year and then by year 1 the expectations ramp up. From everything you've said he really wouldn't be disadvantaged by another year of play and better potentially bored for a year than struggling for many years trying to catch up?

That's brave to say a bit of you regrets it - you don't hear that often. I understand why though. Peer groups are so important to teenagers and being different in some way feels massive at that age, even though as adults we can see that your child is likely within a few weeks of the next oldest child and the cut off date is totally arbitrary. I am also horribly jealous of people with Autumn borns at this stage and kick myself for not waiting another month to start TTC when we did. I didn't realise what a big deal it was at the time.

My son is almost 4, (March birthday). No diagnosis of SEN but has been seen by the paediatrician who agree to refer for an autism assessment. The waiting list is 3 to 4 years long where I am so no answers any time soon 😂.

Yes, my DC2 is also completely different and sooooooo much easier, just like yours. And even when she is being difficult it is just normal 2 year old behaviour. Pretty much every stage I’ve found myself going “oh, when DC1 did X and Y it wasn’t just be being a rubbish parent! DC2 doesn’t do any of it!”

It’s great that his key teacher doesn’t think there is any SEN. Do you take him to any extra classes- football/ gymnastics/ swimming? How does he do there?

I really would defer him though, he just doesn’t sound ready. If he has worse concentration than your 1 year old, how is he going to manage when it’s 30 children, 1 teacher and so many distractions?

I can see the sport is really important to you but there are some sports that work on a calendar year, not a school year, plus sport can be done outside of school. I really don’t think this is as much of an issue as it seems right now. Have you look at the Facebook group of the flexible admissions for summer borns?

Autumn borns do better all the way up to A-level. It all very well people coming on her to say that their August born was top of their year in primary and now off to Oxbridge but the data on a population level says there is a significant disadvantage to being August born.