8 year old just not fitting in with her classmates - what can i do?

[rbmilliner]

I'm writing this as a very socially awkward, introvert person myself who's always suffered from not having many friends or not being included so don't want the same of my girl.
My daughter, 8 years old is an only child so we've always tried to encourage her to make friends which outside of school she seems to have managed to a certain degree and from what I can see is a very kind, likeable girl - never really has major meltdowns, shares is generally polite, doesn't come across as overbearing or to me at least.

I've suspected for a while that she finds maintaining friendships tricky at school but this has become more evident since the start of year 4. She doesn't have a friend she's connected with in class and is always the one left without a partner or sitting quietly at the back not really engaging whilst the others are jumping around doing what kids do. She talks about playing with other kids when there's a game like tag but apart from that it seems she walks around a playtime trying to find someone to play with. She has noticed this.

I've flagged this to the school that I suspected a problem and the response has always been 'we'll keep an eye on it' but nothing more really is ever said.
I mentioned bullying (a group of kids had decided that she was going to be the only 'evil lord' that they tried to catch. When she said she didn't like it and didn't want to play one girl told her she was letting everyone else down) and this generated a meeting.
There was a referal to the art therapist over two months ago. Still waiting for a response about that.

I went on a school trip on Friday and saw how ostracized she was. No one really made any contact with her and she didn't with anyone else. The girl she'd been partnered with had apparently turned her back on her when she tried to talk to her before they'd even left the school gates and the other 2 just talked within the 3 of them. When she tried they just talked over her or ignored her and so she gave up. She occasionally did something silly to get there attention and they looked at her as if she was strange. I asked her why she'd done that and she said when other people do it they think it's funny and people like them.

I've tried countless play dates in the past to point that I just ended up as childcare or the sibling has has to come too just got to much. They were rarely if ever returned. She does do extra curricular activities like wood craft folk ( which she loves) have tried football, ice skating, you name it and generally gets on well with the kids there but everyone is busy so not able to form friends outside the groups.

I basically don't know what else to do to try and help her - does anyone have any advice because I can't work why my lovely girl doesn't have loads of friends

How many girls in her class? Are there any other quieter ones that you could help her connect with? I have noticed that in primary school they all tend to aspire to be friends with the popular girls, and don't notice the other shy girls that they would probably get on better with.

I was the same at primary school. I just wasn't similar to my peers, they didn't like me and I was never entirely sure why. I found being friendly with boys worked well in school. I also became a librarian and asked the teachers could I help in the infants at lunch time when I was in y5 and 6. 🤣 Maybe too much of a goody goody in hindsight?!

I kept up brownies and ice skating outside of school so had friends there, then family time as well.

High school was wonderful though - a much bigger pool of friends to fish from!

School don't sound very proactive, do they? My dc's school ran a club for children whose social skills needed polish or the ones with diagnosed social communication difficulties. They used these to teach the kids techniques that they should understand innately but didn't. Has anyone suggested that your DD might be neurodiverse? I ask only because the difficulties she's having could indicate that plus you've said that you are introverted and socially awkward yourself.

It is so hard. The school should be doing more to help but at the end of the day they can't make anyone be friends with her. If she's fine getting on with kids outside school it sounds like it's more just a case of friendships being settled in her class and her happening to fall outside them, rather than anything she is doing "wrong."

I know it must be horrible to see her left out but otoh if they tolerated her or were friendly "enough" in class but then made it clear they were real/better friends with each other (i.e. talking about meeting up outside school) that would be upsetting for her too.

I think you're doing all the right things in giving her opportunities to interact outside of school - I suppose the only thing I'd say is maybe stop "trying" multiple different activities and focus on one or two things where she sees the same kids regularly with lots of opportunities to interact, and not be afraid of being honest with the other parents if you get chatting to them - tell her she's having a hard time at school etc so they might invite her to their dcs parties or whatever.

Definitely try the school again - they have a pastoral responsibility as much as an educational one - but sometimes people just don't "fit" in one particular environment through no fault of their own. I have a friend who is literally the most popular, sociable, extroverted person I've ever met and she broke down in tears because one mums group she went to were so horrible and exclusionary, so it happens to everyone!

I’d try putting her in a drama club or classes. It’s a good way to learn social skills and how to read people etc. especially as school aren’t being proactive

@MapleOakPine that is very much the case from what I can see although I've tried to set up playdates with almost every girl in the class. She just doesn't seem to click long term.. It's a very girl heavy class, 16 to 9 I think.

She just doesn't seem to click long term. It's a very culturally diverse school so I think there maybe different ideas around playdates.

@HollyGolightly4 She does seem to get on better with boys as she doesn't seem to like typically girls stuff like Taylor Swift, LOL dolls (a fleeting interest every now and again) etc. They all seem obsessed with Harry Potter and I've suggested reading the books and watching the movies so many times but she just doesn't want to for some reason. T
It has crossed my mind that she's also too good - she does love a rule.

My daughter was similar at her age - I did notice if I had girls over to play they would play with my daughter, but if I then dropped them off at a club (like Brownies) they ended up all going their separate ways.
At 18 my daughter was diagnosed with autism - one the face if it, she has excellent social skills but they are all learnt and conscious so she masks. She then struggles to maintain friendships because she can't understandably invest the time/energy to mask 24/7 and she doesn't always pick up on sublte social cues.
I think young kids pick up on quirkly behaviours that adults don't notice. Like your daughters behaviour she thinks is funny and uses to try and get their attention. Or not the 'normal' eye contact. Like I realise that I look at people's faces when they talk but not always their eyes.
Another big one is missing subtle social cues that other kids just know - like how to get into friendship groups/sit with others at lunch.
Girls in particular have more complex social rules ... its why autistic girls often find it easier to play with boys. I would be looking for her to have a playdate with a boy of similar energy to her.

@ShodAndShadySenators, @ittakes2 I have thought she could be ND but she doesn't seems to have obvious traits, no outside school meltdowns (the opposite in fact), makes eye contact and no obvious obsession with particular things (apologies if I've oversimplified a very complex condition) but I think it is something I will approach the school about.

The idea about a social club sounds a fantastic idea - I would have definitely benifited from that!

My 15yo was very similar except that she had 1-2 good friends throughout primary school. Other children definitely thought she was weird and wouldn't let her play. In Year 6 she actually made a few younger friends too. At 12 she got an autism diagnosis. She has a lot of friends at secondary school, they're all autistic. I'm wondering if your daughter has just been unlucky with the school and might make a good friend or two in a different setting.
If you don't want to move schools have you tried Girl Guides or any other groups?

You have really oversimplified a complex condition: a lot of the things you have mentioned there didn't apply to my child either. Girls also present differently from boys and for a long time autistic boys were thought to outnumber girls 3:1. And they really don't, but boys present more obviously than girls do. Some children don't feel comfortable with eye contact, some don't care. My child had lovely prolonged eye contact with me - but I wasn't aware that he couldn't do this with other people he didn't know. He also didn't have meltdowns and did have friends in school. He was diagnosed aged 3 because he had language difficulties, without that he would have slipped under the radar a bit longer. A lot of girls are diagnosed in late childhood or early adulthood, because they are better at trying to fit in - but they still struggle and are usually uncomfortably aware that they aren't like the other kids.

I think it's worth investigating if only to rule it out. If the school won't do anything to support her with pastoral issues, you could look for alternative sources of support. Autism support groups could be useful because of her social communication difficulties, they won't turn you away because there isn't a diagnosis.

Incidentally, I did discover when I was researching autism (out of concern for my child) that there was suddenly an explanation for my own social awkwardness and introverted nature. I asked our developmental paediatrician if he had noticed that a lot of the children he saw professionally had parents who also seemed... "spectrummy", and he said: "All the time..."

This is so so tough. You are already doing what you can. She will, eventually, find friends. But being friendless in childhood is painful and leaves scars. It happened to my DS2. Nothing we could do about it. He had a lovely, supportive secondary school that reassured us he would find his friends in 6th form when other pupils got beyond the peer pressure stage and hung out with people they liked. And that is exactly what happened.

But that is a LONG time to be lonely.

My suggestions are based on the things that worked for DS, long term.
Be vigilant about bullying and encourage her never to tolerate being bullied, just so she can hang out with a crowd. I'd be so proud of her for sticking up for herself the way she did. It shows she has healthy boundaries.

Chat to her about different levels of friendship. It is incredibly important to recognise they are all valuable. Of course she wants some close friends who choose her and actively include her. But until these friendships develop, enjoy the casual, fleeting nature of just getting on with people at woodcraft folk or football.

Be strategic with extra curricular stuff. If she is any good, in any way, at any sport or musical instrument, encourage this. DS1 was quite quirky and didn't make friends that easily. But he was good at a rare sport and made friends there. DS2 had much greater problems with friendships, but he became seriously good at an instrument and ended up in a big band who are now his closest friendships group.

Drama clubs - not dance so much - but improv youth theatre type clubs can be good at helping introverted children develop the social skills they need to navigate childhood and teens.

And also - encourage interests which lean into her natural introversion. It is okay to be introverted. If she loves reading or drawing she may end up befriending a similarly quiet child who wants to chat about books or sit together and sketch. And it gives her something to lose herself in in her spare time, which she really enjoys.

It's only recently that emphasis has been on friendships in your own class at school. If there are children she gets on with, or who need a friend, in the years above or below, cultivate those friendships too.

And pester the school. They can be so dismissive of this, when actually it is crucial to long term mental health and sense of self.

I don't think it's an issue with your daughter as such. It's just how kids are but also it's so hard if she has nobody to spend time with. My daughter's 8 and in a relatively small class of all girls and she has one friend who's on her wavelength and the others not so much. They're not actively mean, they just have other friends or interests.

My daughter also does lots of activities outside school and is happy chatting away to anybody there like your daughter but has not really made any friends she would see outside those activities. I'm on nodding terms with most of the parents but nothing beyond that and frankly most of us are at the activity for an hour's peace not to chat or arrange playdates.

I think outside school friendships are overestimated in importance and not as common as people think. Most kids at my daughter's school have siblings and spend most of their time with them. There are a few who are inseparable outside school but that's because their parents are best buds and they rely on each other for childcare.

The important thing is how you frame the issue with her and build her confidence while accepting that she can't be friends with everyone. If she's unhappy then that's hard. Fortunately my daughter is happy in herself and know her value. If that's not the case with your daughter work on that and as @Tonissister said give her lots of opportunities to "find her tribe".

My daughter was like this. Even at clubs she didn’t really make friends. Adults loved her. What struck me was you said your daughter loves a rule - that was/is my daughter

she came into her own in 6th form and is still incredibly close to the girls she made friends with and again the girls she shared a house with at Uni. They were all like her ‘outsiders’, struggled in earlier years with friendships (she had a friend in Junior School, picked up a few more in senior school)

we had her engagement party this weekend. Her school friends came (two of whom are in the bridal party), her Uni friends came AND her work friends. She is now popular as an adult. She was just a mini adult and most kids couldn’t relate to her and she couldn’t relate to them

she got there and all her friends are true friends, literally travelling hours to be at their party. Seeing them together you could see the love between her and them

The popular girls at school no longer talk!

your daughter will find her tribe. My daughter met a girl in Year 2 who is a quirky as her (rule loving, highly motivated to get homework done types, enjoyed activities that most 7 year olds didn’t enjoy etc) and she is a bridesmaid!

it’s tough to be in the middle of this but she will find her people

ND girls mask and can hide all ND traits, doesnt mean they aren't ND.
I would like to suggest scouts. Not guides.
Scouting is very inclusive and I loved it. It is structured and not girly.

I see it’s already been suggested but I’ve generally observed that children involved in music (whether singing or playing instruments) tend to be very inclusive and accepting of different personalities. Might be something to try if your DD is keen.

You could be describing my daughter at the same age. She just wasn’t interested in the incessant chatter, handstand contests and random screaming that the rest of the girls in her class seemed to enjoy.
She made one good (male) friend in y5-6 which made life less boring. Through him she also befriended another girl and that turned into a lovely friendship for a couple of years.
She was diagnosed with autism in y7.
She now (y8) has found her tribe. Not without the occasional drama but much more accepted for who she is.

I have personal experience and worked in primary schools for years, the ND girls were always picked up later than the boys and it was always because of social/ friendship issues like the ones you have described. I agree a good drama/ performing club outside of school if she enjoys that might be a good idea, and also agree that she will be more likely to find her people at secondary

I thought ASD too - especially when you said 'she likes a rule'. You say her eye contact is good - but what about when she is very stressed and anxious - that's when I notice that DS's starts to drop away. The trying to fit in by copying others behaviour and it falling flat and looking 'odd' is heartbreaking but also probably not unusual.

If she is well behaved and reasonably clever I wouldn't assume that school would pick up her having ASD. They really aren't qualified to pick up on high functioning kids. No one noticed for example that DS would occasionally put his hands over his ears in assembly for example or any other clues. He wasn't noticed till nearly secondary school age and then only because he teacher went on a course and was just wondering.

IME things get much harder as they get older because the gap in emotional maturity only gets wider. Taylor Swift will move on to them all being interested in make up, then boys. It's not unusual for the wheels to fall off around starting secondary school time or around starting GCSE's.

If she does turn out to be autistic OP then it sounds like it's possible she might have inherited it from you - do you think it's possible you might be autistic too?

I was this girl at school op. I’m not ND but was very introverted and shy with no confidence, I also think my interests and lifestyle were different from the popular kids so I didn’t seamlessly fit in. I found a fantastic group of friends at high school and an even better than that group of friends at university, by this time my self confidence had grown a lot and I have never struggled to fit in or socialise since. Once she finds her place where she feel like she belongs without trying she will then flourish. More often than not those environments are the places you find the “nerdier” kids, nothing competitive so I think suggestions of music, drama are great suggestions. I would also consider martial arts, contrary to what might be thought it’s a very inclusive and accepting community where respect is standard practice, and actually a lot of kids who do martial arts are quirky.

What really helps is having a chat with and getting to know the other mums. It's amazing how if the kids sees their parents chatting regularly and getting on, the kids often follow suit. Baby ducks follow mama ducks and all that. It could be worth a try and it could be nice for yourself also having another mum to chat to. You could organise to meet a mum for a cuppa. You could mention it to your child too that you're going and that you enjoyed it. It could be worth organising a playdate or two also or even to go to a local playground with another mum or two so it's not too intense

This is really tough for you and DD. You’re doing the right thing. I think you need to have a proper sit down meeting with the school rather than a two minute conversation at the school gates at drop off / pick up. Ask them specifically for help. State you’ve asked for help before but haven’t seen any difference. Ask what they’ve done. Ask what they can do. Ask about other boys and girls that might make ideal partners to pair up with group work etc. Do they have a friendship “please play with me” bench / seat? Or could they designate one? These work well for primary school. Ask your DD if there are any children who don’t have lots of friends or who the quieter group are. Then ask the teacher if they can help facilitate something. Is there any reading you can do to look at ASD / ND? Give her plenty of reassurance.

It has crossed my mind that she's also too good - she does love a rule.

Being 'too good' is a sign of masking, something autistic girls are masters at and loving a rule is also a strong autistic trait, they can have a very strong sense of justice, my ASD girl has both these traits, she also really struggles to make new friends. Have a look into 'autism in girls', it can be very hidden, but does tend to get more complicated/exposed when the hormones start to kick in.

My DS is like this too. I think it’s partly down to bad luck of not having met his tribe yet and also the parents are very selective about play dates and orchestrate a lot. I know that at secondary school that won’t happen as much and I am keen to choose a large school for secondary that has a wide range of extracurricular activities.

I’m fairly extroverted and sociable- it’s my job to be! DS is naturally a bit quieter than me but seems ok with social communication skills.

Well, nooooo…..

You spoke to the school and they said they’d “keep an eye on it” — but what does that actually mean in real terms?

How will they quantify improvement or identify whether things are getting better or not? Will they be actively observing playtimes and group work, or checking in with her directly?

What support mechanisms will they employ? For example, will there be a named adult she can go to, supported play or friendship groups, structured activities at break times, buddy systems, or guided groupings in class to help her build connections?

Where will they record the impact of each of these actions so they can see what’s working and what isn’t? Will observations be logged, reviewed regularly, and shared with parents rather than relying on vague reassurance?

“Keeping an eye on it” is BS. A child who is consistently left out needs proactive, intentional support, not just monitoring and hope ffs 🙄🤦🏼‍♀️

Go back, repeat the above x

My child has dyspraxia and we’ve had the exact same experience. He struggles to process information, especially when there’s lot of people, noise and personalities to contend with. School is overwhelming and he’s struggled to make friends because he does shut down a bit. Even though it looks like he’s got people to play with, he’s actually just tagging onto games that other groups are playing and no one would miss him if he stopped joining in.
Outside of school in much smaller groups he has made solid friendships that bring him joy. I see his personality and confidence shine when he is with one or two other children.
i think that’s why it was so hard to understand why he struggled because I only saw him outside of school and he seemed to be getting on fine.
Dyspraxia runs in families and I also have it and, like you, am introverted.
i think school is hard because it’s busy and loud and it’s difficult to avoid that. As your daughter grows up she will be able to choose where she studies and works and can pick things more suited to her personality.
Also it does get better as they get older when they start to develop more one to one relationships rather than being part of a big group like they are in primary school.
It also helped us all to understand why he felt like this and just accept certain situations weren’t his cup of tea rather than nagging him to be more outgoing or to try harder.
It is heartbreaking knowing they are left out though.