13 external teacher suggested Austim : what are the steps we need to take to explore this

[FabulousFebruary]

As above silly question maybe but could it be docs ? Elsewhere

I was not intending to be rude-your post did not offer many details.

I presume if your child is 13, they had been at school for 9 years? Have any previous teachers raised any issues?

My suggested 'next steps' as a SENCo of many years, would be to make an appointment to speak to the school SENCo.

It does rather depend on the school Sendco. The one at our school has said that autistic children don't need reasonable adjustments as "X has autism and manages fine".

@FabulousFebruary I would start by reading up on autism in girls and forming your own view as to whether you think your DD may be autistic. If so, get to your GP and explain why you think DD is potentially autistic and seek a referral through Right to Choose.

But they don't teach how to diagnose autism. It is more about how to deal with it. To be able to diagnose autism you would have psychology qualifications. Teachers often think children are just annoying or badly behaved and have no idea there is autism or a speech and language disorder going on. Especially with girls.

Have you heard of PDA (?)
It stands for Pathological Demand Avoidance. It is autistic spectrum. It is more can't do than won't do. It's what my daughter has. School completely missed it. After school guitar teacher picked up on it after a couple of sessions!!

I never said they do diagnose. That's not the teacher's role.

Where does your sister work? I'd be very concerned about that school.

My experience in a variety of secondary schools in the last 18 years is that all of them offer training on SEND. We aren't trained to identify students with a particular condition. However we do experience a lot of students with different conditions and start to spot similarities (and differences!) in their presentation.

I would never suggest to a parent that a child has a particular condition. I'd be hauled over the coals for doing so! However I would say something like "I have spotted X is taking slightly longer than other students to process answers to questions, have any other subjects noticed this?" then take the conversation from there.

This is a sensible approach and what I did although as it was 2020 and the NHS wasn't really doing anything except Covid, I also had to find and pay for a private assessment.

I supervise teaching trainees on placement (I've had 5 so far from 4 different training providers) and SEND may be "in the framework" but they don't know a lot about it. None had heard of EHCPs for instance.

I trained 15 years ago and we got one afternoon.

The only school I have worked in that provided high quality, regular training was an independent school (they were also excellent in supporting medical needs and had an onsite nurse).

Sorry, I meant to add that DD had been diagnosed a couple of years and the teacher from an after school kids' yoga class she used to go to asked me tactfully if she might have ADHD. I didn't/don't always tell club providers unless they ask directly so I thought that was interesting.

The teacher herself was diagnosed with ADHD.

I supervise teaching trainees on placement (I've had 5 so far from 4 different training providers)

I'm assuming some sort of school based role. In which case the school should be telling them as part of the training process. My trainees certainly know about them as we look at the SEND register and students are coded differently for EHCP, SEN support.

Has your child experienced any trauma or childhood adverse experiences?

Trauma and Autism can present very similarly. IME this is massively overlooked.

SEN is a required part of the teacher training so no-one should be going into their ECT years not having heard of an EHCP. I can only imagine the students that are mentioned are very early in their teacher training.

An EHCP will not even be considered unless there is an educational need. Most SENCOs will not support a referral to diagnosis unless there is an educational need. Many children with autism do not have an EHCP and may be down as known SEN which means school support. This means they have an educational need and need reasonable support to access education.

A formal diagnosis is not needed for any of this though. If SEN is suspected, a school must make reasonable adjustments under the SEN Code of practice and you can highlight this is you feel your child needs adjustments and the school are not responding.

@Arran2024 yes and I think my DD has this.
It's definitely eased as she has got older but she's still very stubborn .

Age 13 by the way not year 13

She also seems to be unable to show her true self around adults.

Right to choose was the fastest option for us. You can print off a pre filled request letter from internet and just give it to the gp. If they are unhelpful. I'd still be waiting now if we had left it to school. Our senco have been rubbish.

My child has just been diagnosed audhd. I highly suspect I am too. But no one would of picked it up for me at school or even now. Girls particularly are exceptional at masking.
Painfully shy would probably be the only thing anyone would ever pick up for me.

It would of changed my whole world around at school if I had some support. My mh has greatly suffered thinking I was broken like pp have also said. I'd definitely investigate it further. At the very least implement some of the support strategies chat with your 13 year old and see if they find it helpful.

@Sockskeepmyfeetwarm

This is the thing I don't think she needs any adjustments she's doing well academically,has a good group of friends ,does her h w without promoting.

No trauma no.

School teachers are woefully inadequate when it comes to recommending testing for autism if your child appears to be doing ok academically.

Ask your GP for a referral and pay to see a paediatrician privately is my advice. Much quicker and the paediatrician will write a report for school listing the support they require.

@PluckyChancer what would we gain though ?
She's doing well has good friends etc .

@PluckyChancer it's not our job to reccomend tests for autism. It's our job to recognise a student is in some way finding learning difficult and try strategies to help.

I'd suggest having a chat with her school teacher/ and pastoral team first, then, if you and your DD want to explore this further, go to your GP and ask for referral under 'Right to Choose' which I understand from the SEN team I work with is currently much quicker than going the CAMHS route.

Is your DD Year 8 or Year 9?

I have some experience of working with young people around your daughter's age before and after diagnosis. Whilst it can be a good thing long term, it can very much send them through a bit of a loop short term if they are diagnosed, so getting assessments done well ahead of GCSEs if possible is a good idea to allow time for the dust to settle.

If she is diagnosed, there is no obligation for her to have an EHCP if you feel it won't benefit her from an academic point of view. The school will be able to implement plenty of adjustments without one, the main benefit is the provision of 1-2-1 class support.

@Paperwhite209 ..age 13 not year 13.

She doesn't need any that's the thing so what would be the point.

Ideally she needs support with being less shy around adults she doesn't know but many young people have this.

So I'm not sure what the point would be.

She wouldn’t meet the criteria for a CAMHS referral so right to choose would be the way to go.

If she is having no issues with friends or education, I would personally keep an eye on her. If she starts to show any signs of anxiety that is linked to school, don’t delay in getting support as this can escalate very quickly into school based avoidance.

It is very difficult to diagnose autism when the presentation are the more subtle signs as this can be linked to many other factors. Trauma is just one and should always be explored as even if you assume there is no trauma, what one person experiences is not the same as another.

In deciding if you need to pursue a diagnosis, it would help to think in terms of impact rather than symptoms. You notice that she has elements of being strong-willed. What is the impact of this? How does it affect her relationships? Does she need significant support to manage this?

Oh cross posted so question was answered.

You probably do not need to rush out and get a diagnosis now but be aware and look for impact or any changes to her MH above and beyond what you would normally expect from a teen.

Two students were second placement (state) and two were teachers with more than a year of ft teaching experience in independent (contrasting placement in state). The fifth was early in training although had volunteered at a school for a year.

I do teach a KS4/KS5 only subject though so there are fewer struggling SEND students than lower down the school. Although not none.

I think the quality and availability of SEND knowledge amongst teachers is more mixed outside your experience. I'm glad you're in a pocket of good practice though!

I will post a link to the EHCP support thread in case it's useful, OP. My academically able 13 year old has one mainly for SEMH needs. The SEN Code does not actually say what many school staff and LA employees would like it to and there are many myths, to put it kindly.

Be especially careful looking out for disordered eating as this is much more prevalent among autistic girls.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5309128-ehcp-support-thread-no-5?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

@Sockskeepmyfeetwarm if I could get suppoet with this aspect that would be excellent but itndoesnt impact her at school.

The point would be better understanding of herself.

DH realised he was autistic when our DD was diagnosed. He has found it quite empowering.