DS will not use the toilet at school

[LostTheWill29]

Posting in chat as hoping to reach a wider audience before I lose the will..

DS age 4, in reception will not use the school toilet without a parent present. He will hold wee all day, and won't drink just incase it makes him wee.

School were encouraging him to try but he can't "let go" and they aren't pushing since the new year as he has recently been crying/begging not to go to school. Currently he will come out of school, give me his bag/coat and go back in to use the toilet.

He can't be bribed or talked in to it. He was difficult and late to potty train, he still won't wipe his own bum as the poo makes him gag/throw up (he doesn't like disgusting/smelly things). I've bought books about school toilets and "invisible string" about us being connected always, I draw little hearts on his wrist, we try to understand why he won't go - "I'm scared" "they're dirty" but not true as he will go when I collect him. I've offered little picture of me to carry to the toilet. He doesn't respond to sticker charts or high value rewards like toys (although he loves toys). The toilet is in the classroom and they are free to use it whenever. He could also use it when the class is empty at lunch or use the lunch hall toilets.

School have referred to school nurse continence team, although his teacher and I feel it isn't a continence issue however they have a 4 month wait for an initial assessment and have sent me a link to ERIC, which I have looked at many, many times.

Does anyone have a child who is similar and has any suggestions? Getting desperate as I thought he would grow out of it after being the same at nursery (afternoons) but here we are!

Is there a hot air hand drier in there? Some children don’t like the noise. Within a busy school day that would be used a lot.
Maybe it’s the smell? Is there a disabled toilet he could use in school until a strategy that works can be found?
Was Nursery in the school or a different setting?
I have taught boys who would not wee at school all day and a Paediatrician advised that it was OK but the not drinking is a worry. Our youngest daughter also did the same at Nursery. She was OK in Reception but often didn’t like toilets when we were out and about.
Does he have other sensory needs? Have you considered SPD?
Would he go at the end of the day with a TA in the bathroom and you at the door or in the classroom? This would be a step in the right direction.

Any signs of ND? I’d look into seeing a sensory OT to see if they can see what’s going on.

Avoiding public toilets is quite a typical sensory and ND trait.

Is it light enough, have a hand dryer,does it feel spooky.

Are the toilets dirty and smelly? We went through similar with DD. DH made an appointment to view the toilets and they were disgusting. DH joined the board of governors and got the toilets rebuilt and made sure the cleaners had sufficient time and materials to do the job properly. Drastic but necessary.

Dd is ND. She won’t go at school either unless she is absolutely desperate. She also won’t use public toilets except in extreme circumstances. We just work around it. She goes before we leave the house and when she gets home.

I went through my entire schooling without ever using the school toilets. In secondary I didnt even know what they looked like. I don't even know why, I was just a weird kid. I was fine. I could hold it in. Does he express that this is a problem for him or is it just a problem for the adults who think he should go?

Dd was exactly like this in reception and would either wet herself on the pavement on the walk home, or need to do a wild wee in the park. Every single day.

I realised the issue was with having to ask to go to the toilet. I discussed with the teachers and they suggested she make a T sign instead but that still didn’t work. She ended up going at lunchtime, because they just went from the playground to the toilets without asking. On Rainy days without outside playtime, the issue came back. Now in Y1, all fine as they don’t have to ask.

Could this be part of the problem with ds?

Who is making this an issue? And why? DS didn’t do a wee at school for the three years he was in infants. On school trip days, he went into the toilet block (as they all had to go to the loo before getting on the coach) but never used the loo but just washed his hands and came out again (as that was all the teacher’s checked). As soon as he went into juniors, it was no longer an issue as it was a different toilet block which didn’t have a longstanding drains issue and so didn’t smell. Like your DS, my DS didn’t drink at school but he had a drink before he left in the morning and as soon as he got home. The only thing we had to do was make sure we went straight home after school so he could do a wee or go somewhere else where he could use a toilet. There was no psychological or behavioural issue, just a boy with an acute sense of smell and good bladder control!

Can he explain why he will go back in to the classroom and go to the toilet after school?

The toilet is in the classroom ???
I've never heard of this before. So he doesn't want to go because his class are in the classroom but he will go when the classroom is empty. Has someone made fun of him/ have others made fun of other children and he doesn't want to risk it being him?

ETA I don't think it's that unusual. My teenagers won't go to the loo at school either.

I know you have said that you have looked at the ERIC website but do actually give them a call as they are very helpful. They are very likely experienced in this type of situation and if they can’t help then will point you in the direction of possible help.

Does the school have an accessible toilet he could try?

It sounds like you have tried a lot and I’m wondering if the pressure people are putting him under is making him less likely to do it? It’s turning it into a big thing.

I would stop mentioning it at all for now personally. When he needs to go in at the end of the day gradually stand further and further away but again not saying anything.

The toilets are almost always in the classroom in EYFS.

This isn't that unusual. Who is it causing to the problem for?

My 6yo is the same, he goes before and after school instead.

I remember being about the same age and hating the school toilets because (and I still distinctly remember) the teachers looking over the tops of the doors. They were just checking which were still occupied and if anyone needed any help but the invasion of my privacy - even at 5(ish) felt huge!
Is there a potential difference in the level of privacy he gets - or feels he gets - when he goes with you at the end of the day Vs during the course of the teaching day?

I still don't like public loos as I think the sense of being watched has followed me but I manage!

I don’t want to minimise the problem but are you sure you aren’t all making too much of this? I think in my entire first five years of high school I only visited the toilets 2/3 times! Sixth year was better because we had our own toilets next to our common room.
As long as he isn’t having accidents and clearly clutching himself and dancing around because he’s bursting, or getting sore tummy and constipation, I would take the pressure off and stop making an issue of it. He might be drinking less than you’d like, but make sure he has a good drink as soon as he wakes up, visits the toilet before going to school and then again as soon as he’s home. Then he can have plenty to drink in the evening.
Do you live near the school? Could he go home for lunch?

My DS ((now 10) was the same. I was aware of it because he would come out at the end of the day and need to have a wee immediately. I hadn’t mentioned it to his teacher as he seemed to be managing, but when he inevitably wet himself at school around now, his teacher was really shocked that he’d managed so far into the year. She was amazing and didn’t take what sounds like a bit more of a heavy-handed approach. She helped him figure out that it was partly not quite knowing when it was ok to go, when to ask, not really liking the toilets, not really liking there being lots of other kids around. She amazingly added it to her incredibly long mental list of things she remembered about each specific child and would gently remind him at a couple of points in the day and make sure that he went and it was quiet. She really helped him get through it and after a few weeks he was fine.

This will be a long one, but to try to answer questions that I can remember

The toilets are in the classrooms until year 3. They're just one room with one toilet and sink, no hand dryer although he won't use them anyway as he doesn't like the noise.

I've been in the toilet, it's clean as much as it can be with 4 year olds and his teacher and TA are really good, he has always been funny about smells or disgusting things and they have cleaning stuff they use throughout the day and have shown him this. I don't think this is the problem because he will go in alone while I stand outside the classroom. The problem seems to be me not being there (or DH).

The children have mostly free play across the classroom, except for minimal carpet time. They're allowed to go to the toilet whenever they want, they don't need to ask. Which is good because he absolutely wouldn't. He also wouldn't tell his teachers he was sad/hurt etc unless they asked him directly. This is only a teacher thing, he'd tell you at home.

Nursery was at the same school but toilet set up was different, it was a room with 3 cubicles in the nursery room. They also had free access but he did the same thing there, waited until I was there but he would drink as it was only an afternoon session.

He will use public toilets elsewhere with us. No one has made fun of him. He says he will do it after school because I'm there, but can't explain why he needs me there.

I'm concerned it's an issue because he doesn't drink at all, which is fine now but when it's 30 degrees in June, that might be a problem. It also means he can't/won't go to any after/before school clubs and I need to find a job so this is a possibility at some point, and no one else can pick him up from school. I also think it's adding to his unhappiness about school in general because he feels uncomfortable and thirsty while there. He finishes his bottle of water before we get home so obviously needs a drink. He can also be funny about using the toilet if other people are in our house/we're at theirs.

It sounds like we've tried a lot but it's not been full on/all at once and everyone has completely backed off from talking to him about it for now. He's nearly 5 and this has been ongoing since he potty trained and started nursery at 3. I will try to call ERIC tomorrow, thanks

I’d assume it’s just two cubicles off the classroom
by the cloakroom. It’s not directly IN the room. This has been the case in every primary school I’ve ever seen… you can’t have four year olds wandering down the halls to separate blocks.

I find it difficult to go in public toilets and I'm 60! I have used the facilities at most 5 times at work in 5 years and I work 8 hours a day. I do have a couple of drinks at work. I'm not in a rush to go when I get home and normally wait a couple of hours. It's just the way some people are wired - and then there's dm who goes at least every 2 hours!

I get that lots of teenagers don't use the toilets, I wouldn't if I could help it but it feels extreme for a 4 year old to never use it. Having said that, I'm reassured that it's more normal then I first thought!

It sounds like it's been made a huge deal of to him, but it hasn't. The reward charts/bribery are unrelated, I know he won't engage from similar things. For example he once needed to take antibiotics but absolutely wouldn't. He wanted sweets in the shop and I said "ok we'll buy them for after your medicine" and he said "ok, just put them back on the shelf then" he'd rather go without them do something he doesn't want to do!

His teacher has taken him to the toilet to show him it when he first started. Then between October - December she reminded him to go and try once in the afternoon and I offered a "mini me" in picture form to carry with him in case it helped. In January he has been pretending to be ill to try and avoid going/upset etc and so teacher has backed off to avoid putting more pressure on. I've also bought a book around similar subjects that we've read once (raj's rule)

My son was and still is exactly the same. From reception until now year 11 he doesn't use toilet at school. Yes we had a few accidents in school and on way home until about age 10 but then he got better at holding it in. No advice but try not to worry. Its quite common with smells, hand dryers, too many children in there etc

Firstly, I wouldn't worry too much. Loads of kids don't like using the toilet at school. The coming out of school desperate for a wee is quite normal. In terms of the drinking I'd encourage him to have small sips, tell him this won't make him need a wee. As for worrying about the summer...cross that bridge when you come to it (he likely won't need a wee then because he will sweat whatever he drinks out!).

In terms of a solution, it sounds like he needs another 'safe' adult at school. Perhaps the TA could spend some additional time with him (not toilet related) so that he can establish a better bond and maybe trust her to stand outside while he uses the toilet.

In the short term I would just go in at lunchtime and let him wee! That should resolve the not drinking and the school refusal. Perhaps once he's into the habit of weeing every lunchtime at school you can wean him off needing you there. Perhaps do gradual withdrawal like with sleep training and get slowly further away.

I feel like this is so common - I hated using the loos at school. I think my brother was the same. I think it stemmed from the loos in year 2 being basically outside toilets and were freezing cold and damp.
I also think I’d forget to use the loo because I was distracted doing other things, got a sudden desperate urge as soon as I put the key in the front door! And realised I hadn’t been all day😂