Why isn't a central list of funerals.

[Worryabouteverything]

Someone we know very well. The deceased husband is the only contact we have.
They had no children.
Nothing is on social media. Nor in the local paper.
We only have 2 funeral directors in town and we have phoned them.
Unfortunately neither have any details.
We are now wondering if it's a direct funeral.
Any suggestions on how we can find out.

My uncle died a few years ago in Ireland .Very well known in the area and over 3,000 people came to the removal at the funeral parlour in the evening There were at least a thousand at the church the next day.The same for the funeral of my Aunt . Nobody was invited and only close family and friends were part of the actual wake .

Exactly.

This.

Sounds harsh but if they wanted you there you would have been invited.

So, no big relationship where you know any of her family then? I wouldn't have expected an invite to her funeral op, that's a bit of a stretch.

OP, the grieving husband will be dealing with a lot at the moment and his late wife's book club won't be his top priority. He has informed you of her passing and may well consider that is sufficient - especially as he was not involved with your club at all. Ringing round local undertakers is not something I would have done. If none of you have been invited, then so be it.

You may be informed in due course, but if not, why don't you arrange a special book club meeting to remember this lady in a time and place of your own choosing.

Also just the much bigger population size - on average nearly 1650 people die every day in the UK - it would take about 5 hours every day to read them all out!

but if he wanted people there he’d have said I’ll tell you the funeral details when I have them? I’m assuming he did it out of thoughtfulness so you weren’t left for ever wondering why she left the group.

Same

How well did you know her?

Seems more important to express condolences to the family than anything else.

@Worryabouteverything sorry this is a very off thread post

Yep very different rites @DeanElderberry [(edit) to tag]

@OhDear111
Open to correction on this "but" :

"Was it at home?"

Translated into
Was it a hospital death
Was she/he ill
Was it expected (so a doctor was involved and willing to sign a cause of death cert)
Right so unexpected so autopsy will take [local estimate per hospital]

FD is not needed just helpful to centralise and supply a coffin and hearse as the wider community can/will fill a gap
& FD is not always full time business the way it may be in the UK and FD work to the 3 day or subcontract to another FD.

Inquests are not needed to bury
Its death > establish direct cause of death > get cert > service.

Afterwards file cert with Registrar get issued with Death Cert.
UK law changed to account for serial killer Shipman

If there is a finding of a known/suspected "unnatural" death while investigating the cause of death during an autopsy the case is referred to Police & Office of the State Pathologist plus Coroner who has the power to open an inquest to establish the facts.

The inquest will open and if there is a police investigation it may take witness statement but will not issue a finding if an unlawful death is the primary reason for the cause of death
It can /will be put on hold until any criminal investigation /criminal trial reaches a conclusion.

When my dad died I got awful messages from two cousins on my mums side I’d not seen for years and who I only ever saw at funerals neither had my dad , as I’d not told them immediately he breathed his last and they found out from someone else that he’d died . They took time to find me on Facebook as they didn’t have contact d tails and message me. They were incandescent about it. People are bonkers.

sorry a tangent !

This is the way forward.

When DH died a few years ago, I went through his phone and contacted people to let them know and again later to give funeral details.

It took a long time to organise his funeral because the registry office was jolly slow and then the funeral directors were jolly slow so you may not hear from your friend's husband for a while. Presumably you/your book club knows her address so you can send a card/flowers?

Sorry for your loss.

Phone the council, they have a list of all cremations and burials.

I'm not sure this is quite right, even in England. It isn't usually the case that you would invite specific people to the funeral. More likely that you would use the channels that you think might get the info through to all relevant groups. And very many bereaved people (not all, of course), would be very open to people coming along unexpectedly because of their membership of particular social circle that hadn't been remembered during the funeral planning.
Such people would likely sit quietly towards the back, and not attend the reception afterwards. (Though they may be welcomed there, it might make catering a bit too unpredictable.)
Unless there is any possibility of tension (previous arguments etc) I'd say that was fine. But since you need to get the details of the funeral, it would be appropriate to use that opportunity to check what the husband's preferences/expectations are. Something like: Do let us know if the funeral is open to X's wider circle of friends, such as our book group. If it is, would you be able to let us know the date and location?

EDITED TO ADD: And if you get no reply, safest to take that as a polite suggestion that they want a smaller funeral without the book group friends.)

Church notices or news letters?

We had the same problem from the opposite side recently. An Uncle we hardly knew, no children, died suddenly at a relatively young age, lived miles away from most of the family as he'd moved there for work years before.

We had no details of his friends at all to invite them to the funeral. In our case, we knew from the police one of his friends had called the police for a welfare check as he hadn't turned up for an appointment. The police don't give out personal details, but we were able to leave a message with the police for the friend to contact us if he'd like to attend the funeral. He sent the message out to loads of other friends, and lots turned up to the funeral and sent messages, which was lovely.

Could you do this the opposite way round? eg through the Dr, hospital, any other possible link ?

The people you want there, you’ll make aware. If OP isn’t aware, it’s for a reason.

I think if you’re having to carry out detective work to establish a funeral date, the message is clear. If they wanted a free for all type of do, they’d be announcing it.

When ds died we we only told 20 people the funeral arrangements. We didn't want randoms.

I had assumed that a funeral was like a wedding; in that it was acceptable or even expected that casual friends or acquaintances from the village would go to the Church or crematorium for the service but not expect to be given refreshments after.

That’s not the case for a wedding! You only turn up if you’re in possession of an invite.

You dont turn up for "booze and free" food in Ireland because you will understand the culture or can ask someone who will. Or if you do you can be quickly educated that mooching of your NDN is just rude.

The community is told if the family want something different or something to not happen.

You bring food to the house if you go to the house console the family and friends and offer help and to be consloed by your family and friends.
You know you can go or need to ask if its ok by who passed on the death notice.

You attend the public bits of service(s) and offer condolence and are offered consolation if it is appropiate.

If the family want everybody to attend a meal it will be by open public invitation or if not its by direct personal invite.

If you are not invited you go home.
If you are invited and not family or a very close family friend you politely say "thank you lets meet up when you are ready" and you go home.

The family dont have to work out a guest list of who can come or send out personal invitations.

The UK and Ireland just have different social rules.

This has really surprised me @HundredsandHundreds… much more in keeping with the Ireland I remember from my childhood. What a weird little national quirk that this still persists… I love finding out little things like this about cultures.

That’s not true. A church wedding is open to anyone. When we got married, half the village came to watch. They had no expectation of coming to the reception.

It was certainly a thing years ago! Neighbours would come to see you getting married. I remember going to the Chapel/Church with Nana and other neighbours from ‘the building’ to see neighbours sons/daughters get married! This was Glasgow in the 60’s. I’m sure it was a nice thing for the couple, all the people you’d grown up with, sharing a small part of your day and wishing you well! Different times…