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Lucy Letby not charged with further crimes - what does this say about her current convictions

765 replies

mids2019 · 20/01/2026 19:16

So no more charges for Lucy Letby currently.

I can't say I am surprised as the tactics the CPS used the first time to secure convictions wont wash. There have been too many questions about the 'expert' evidence in the first trial and in my opinion the CPS don't want to take the risk of trying again with a more possibly more aware jury.

The police seem to be not too happy and probably thought they had similar evidence as they had initially so were taken aback by the CPS decision. They have had to approach parents to say that their children dies either through medical incompetence or through natural causes. The poor parents will now feel distraught and confused being lef up the garden path and the police maybe telling them Lucy was guilty.

I wonder if this is paving the way for a retrial?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
ThrowingDi · 22/01/2026 01:03

Nothing?

the police have her serving a life sentence. They already have the outcome that further convictions would bring? So why waste the effort?

kkloo · 22/01/2026 01:07

ThrowingDi · 22/01/2026 01:03

Nothing?

the police have her serving a life sentence. They already have the outcome that further convictions would bring? So why waste the effort?

They said it was because it didn't meet the evidential test.

ThrowingDi · 22/01/2026 01:11

kkloo · 22/01/2026 01:07

They said it was because it didn't meet the evidential test.

What’s your point here? Bc this backs up what I said. There’s no point in the government going for further convictions when she’s already imprisoned for life. The cost/benefit analysis isn’t worth it, she’s already segregated from the public and the risk is minimal to leave the other issues. It means nothing with regard to the previous convictions. It’s quite a reach to think 2026 charges not being pursued mean any earlier convictions are automatically unsafe.

Oftenaddled · 22/01/2026 01:31

ThrowingDi · 22/01/2026 01:11

What’s your point here? Bc this backs up what I said. There’s no point in the government going for further convictions when she’s already imprisoned for life. The cost/benefit analysis isn’t worth it, she’s already segregated from the public and the risk is minimal to leave the other issues. It means nothing with regard to the previous convictions. It’s quite a reach to think 2026 charges not being pursued mean any earlier convictions are automatically unsafe.

When the CPS make a decision on charges, they have to follow two steps, in order

Step 1: evidential test

They look at the evidence the police have offered, look at the likely defence, and decide whether a jury is likely to convict.

If yes, they go to step 2.
If no, they turn the case down and never go to step 2.

Step 2: public interest

Does this case matter - does it justify the expenditure? Will bringing it have disproportionate consequences? Will bringing it make a difference to anyone?

You are talking about a public interest test and you're right that police can decide not to go ahead on that basis.

But in this case, the police spelt it out in their press release. These charges failed the evidential test, step 1, and that's why they were rejected. Step 2 was never considered.

freakingscared · 22/01/2026 01:51

It will eventually be a retrial , and it should be . I think she is nothing g but a scapegoat

Firefly1987 · 22/01/2026 04:16

whylieabout · 21/01/2026 07:03

No she was on duty when those babies died there were other excess deaths when she wasn’t on shift those weren’t investigated because she wasn’t there

Yes she was.

Panorama and other reports found that Letby was present for all 13 baby deaths (7 murders and 6 additional deaths) that occurred in the neonatal unit between June 2015 and June 2016.

EyeLevelStick · 22/01/2026 05:51

MikeRafone · 21/01/2026 10:24

I’m not grasping at anything, you have decided that and presumed I believe she is not guilty

the swipe data was not incorrect- her swipe card hadn’t been used and she was not in the hospital

theories were she tailgated someone or tampered with medication previously

why would the talk of tailgating come up if the data showed letby wasn’t there

Quite.

And in any case the swipe card data is meaningless. The fact that anyone thought it was useful is astonishing. Swipe cards are used solely to permit access to people who are authorised and deny access to those who are not. These system don’t track movements in any meaningful way, not least because many of them only require swipe-ins, not swipe-outs.

Talk of tailgating, a pejorative term, is interesting. If two members of staff enter a ward at the same time, or one enters as another leaves, there is absolutely no requirement or expectation for everyone entering to swipe individually.

And, for the record, for the hard of thinking, I’m not a Letby fan. I’m not particularly interested in her at all. What I’m interested in is patient safety and a justice system we can all rely upon.

mids2019 · 22/01/2026 06:48

Often the police being charges against prisoners; that is justice.

The parents of the babies for the new investigation were aware of the investigation and I think the police rather arrogantly filled then with hope that the evidence presented would lead to their day in court and closure. The police have left these families in limbo...If there was insufficient evidence the families didn't need to know.

The CPS have now to explain to the poor parents when the evidence was insufficient tand if the police regarded the evidence of similar .magnitude as that used previously then you do have a problem. Why was the evidence used previously put forward previously allowed unless the thought was a a jury would be malleable?

The police have obviously painstakingly built these cases after examination of a large number of neonatal deaths with the hope of ending speculation about Lucy's innocence and that strategy has falied.

OP posts:
Paul2023 · 22/01/2026 07:02

researchers3 · 22/01/2026 00:43

Mentally ill or unstable people aren't usually murderers or that would be a much higher proportion of society at any given time.

A jury seemed to think so in her case..

Firefly1987 · 22/01/2026 07:02

Why is this the police's fault?! Believe me I am no fan of theirs but they obviously worked incredibly hard on the case and thought she'd face further charges. Everyone who thinks she's innocent thinks the police, doctors, expert witnesses etc. are corrupt and/or useless. They're not-they've done this in good faith to try and get justice and answers for those families!

Worth noting that Shipman wasn't tried for more crimes either. Hopefully the inquest will give us more answers and this debate can finally be over once and for all.

mids2019 · 22/01/2026 07:07

The police maybe underestimated the amount of evidence the CPS would require and I do get the impression they thought the evidence assured as they were uncharacteristically open about their disappointment at not having new charges brought. It seems to me in the police's mind they had enough and were utterly surprised (and angry ) the evidence they acquired was insufficient. To my mind this show the police were possibly over invested in finding more victims amongst a pool of neonatal deaths.

OP posts:
zebrastripesarefun · 22/01/2026 07:09

Agree with Frequency. Jury was shown cherry-picked notes. Medical staff were found to have lied too. Families need answers but would be awful serving prison time if not guilty

Paul2023 · 22/01/2026 07:11

Look we have a justice system that’s not perfect but it’s what we have. I have done jury service before so have seen how the courts work.

Jury service is randomly selected , 12 people from all walks of life. When I did mine, the judge wanted a unanimous verdict , meaning we all had to come to guilty.

Everyone took it seriously and took anything lightly.

I don’t know if for each count in the Letby case , the judge needed a majority or unanimous verdict.

I think it’s clear on here that some people have never seen how a court case works and they’ve only seen it on tv.

I’d therefore agree with what the jury’s decision was rather than what people think on social media.

If Letby is totally innocent, she’ll ( hopefully) be successful with an appeal. But as it stands she is guilty, according to the British justice system. And a lengthy trial

EyeLevelStick · 22/01/2026 07:25

Paul2023 · 22/01/2026 07:11

Look we have a justice system that’s not perfect but it’s what we have. I have done jury service before so have seen how the courts work.

Jury service is randomly selected , 12 people from all walks of life. When I did mine, the judge wanted a unanimous verdict , meaning we all had to come to guilty.

Everyone took it seriously and took anything lightly.

I don’t know if for each count in the Letby case , the judge needed a majority or unanimous verdict.

I think it’s clear on here that some people have never seen how a court case works and they’ve only seen it on tv.

I’d therefore agree with what the jury’s decision was rather than what people think on social media.

If Letby is totally innocent, she’ll ( hopefully) be successful with an appeal. But as it stands she is guilty, according to the British justice system. And a lengthy trial

I think very many people understand how the jury system works. We are rightly concerned that in highly technical cases, such as medical murder and complex fraud, most jury members have neither the knowledge nor the intelligence (remember, 50% of people are below average intelligence) to assimilate the evidence.

That, together with the cherry-picking of evidence by a self-selected lead expert witness suggests not only that Letby has not had a fair trial, but that the babies and their parents have not been treated with due care, respect or dignity at any point.

Glowingup · 22/01/2026 07:34

EyeLevelStick · 22/01/2026 07:25

I think very many people understand how the jury system works. We are rightly concerned that in highly technical cases, such as medical murder and complex fraud, most jury members have neither the knowledge nor the intelligence (remember, 50% of people are below average intelligence) to assimilate the evidence.

That, together with the cherry-picking of evidence by a self-selected lead expert witness suggests not only that Letby has not had a fair trial, but that the babies and their parents have not been treated with due care, respect or dignity at any point.

Does that mean that you wouldn’t be happy with a retrial as a solution? Because that would still involve a jury and would allow the prosecution (and defence) to select their expert witnesses.

Lougle · 22/01/2026 07:40

Paul2023 · 22/01/2026 07:11

Look we have a justice system that’s not perfect but it’s what we have. I have done jury service before so have seen how the courts work.

Jury service is randomly selected , 12 people from all walks of life. When I did mine, the judge wanted a unanimous verdict , meaning we all had to come to guilty.

Everyone took it seriously and took anything lightly.

I don’t know if for each count in the Letby case , the judge needed a majority or unanimous verdict.

I think it’s clear on here that some people have never seen how a court case works and they’ve only seen it on tv.

I’d therefore agree with what the jury’s decision was rather than what people think on social media.

If Letby is totally innocent, she’ll ( hopefully) be successful with an appeal. But as it stands she is guilty, according to the British justice system. And a lengthy trial

You only have to look at medical threads on Mumsnet to see that most people have absolutely no idea what happens in a hospital and how they work. Then consider that NICU is a very specialised area of hospital. How many people would have seen a 23/24 week gestation baby up close? Very few. How many people would understand about ET tubes, NG tubes, dislodgement, etc? Even as an ITU nurse, most nurses wouldn't know how much more significant even a millimetre is in neonates. That the treatment for a 23/24 week neonate is quite different than for a 28 week neonate, which is again different for a 32 week 'grower'.

How many people would understand that as a NICU nurse you might be allocated patient A but through the course of your shift you'll naturally deal with patients C through G and that isn't sinister? That babies throw alarms and it's sometimes important, sometimes unimportant, and sometimes just a glitch?

How many people understand that premature babies break alarmingly fast? I've looked after a baby who was perfectly fine at one feed, and critically unwell at the next feed just 1 hour later. How many people understand that 'funny looking skin' can sometimes be the only sign that something isn't quite right with a baby?

How many people understand that you can't rely on swipe card data? That inevitably nurse 1 goes to the drug cupboard but they get the drugs for their patient and the patient of nurse 2 who can't leave her patient, and nurse 3 who is looking after both her patient and the patient of nurse 4 who has gone on their break? That the agency nurse/student doesn't have access to the drug cupboard/ward doors/gas machine. That the time on machines is often slightly off.

How many people know that it's not always clear that a patient is very unwell, and that nurses do sometimes take a minute to assess a situation and make a decision about what has to be done, which could look like inaction? I've been in a situation on adult ICU (without breaking confidentiality) where I ended up with 3 very unwell patients across 2 rooms because of a critical incident elsewhere, and when one of the monitors gave a very extreme reading my first thought was that there was a malfunction, because the reading was so extreme that you just don't ever see that sort of reading. It took a second or two, between trying to deal with a very unwell patient who was trying to get out of bed, and another who was on very potent medication that needed immediate adjustment, to register that the reading was in fact real and the patient needed emergency treatment. I wasn't a bad nurse. I was just split between 3 emergencies. It happens. It isn't like Grey's Anatomy, Casualty, or Holby City.

For a jury to properly assess the weight of evidence, they would need to at least understand the context. What they got, if all the podcasts, etc., are to be believed, is 'evidence' that had been carefully sculpted to give the impression that certain events only took place when Lucy Letby was there, that she was the common denominator, and that those events don't ever take place normally.

I don't know why she had such a poor defence. They could have, and should have, poked gaping holes in most of the evidence, even if they thought she was guilty.

This isn't actually about innocence or guilt. Our justice system is built on the principle of innocent unless proven guilty by the eradication of reasonable doubt. There is so much doubt, even from the little that we do know, that she should never have been convicted, guilty or not.

But what jury, faced with all the press run up, would have found her not guilty? How could she have had a fair second trail when the jury were told, and knew anyway, that she was already convicted of murder in similar circumstances? It's impossible.

Glowingup · 22/01/2026 07:41

mids2019 · 22/01/2026 07:07

The police maybe underestimated the amount of evidence the CPS would require and I do get the impression they thought the evidence assured as they were uncharacteristically open about their disappointment at not having new charges brought. It seems to me in the police's mind they had enough and were utterly surprised (and angry ) the evidence they acquired was insufficient. To my mind this show the police were possibly over invested in finding more victims amongst a pool of neonatal deaths.

I don’t get a sense that they were utterly surprised. They simply expressed disappointment that no new charges were brought. Seems fairly normal to me. By the time these came to trial, the events would have taken place around 15 years ago. It was always going to be very difficult.

I think the deeper problem revealed on this thread and on social media is that people think that the jury and legal system is so flawed that it can’t ever deal with this case. They won’t be happy if she gets her retrial. They have convinced themselves that her incredibly competent defence barrister at trial was negligent and mismanaged her case. They have convinced themselves that the prosecution hid evidence from the defence. And that she could apparently never get a fair trial. What does that mean then? We just let her out?

Glowingup · 22/01/2026 07:45

I don't know why she had such a poor defence. They could have, and should have, poked gaping holes in most of the evidence, even if they thought she was guilty.

I think you need to ask why someone who is at the top of his field in criminal law (far far more eminent and respected than Mark McDonald) would completely out of character present a poor and negligent defence. The answer is most likely that he didn’t. He presented the case in the way that best served his client. By the way he did poke holes in the evidence. There were weeks of meticulous cross examination if you followed the case.

Lougle · 22/01/2026 07:49

@Glowingup I think that's the biggest problem in this case. There is no way of rolling back time. She can never get a fair trial now. The truth can never be known. Nobody will trust any outcome. If she is innocent, however that presents (a good nurse who was scapegoated; a mediocre nurse who was vaguely incompetent; a just about ok nurse who was unlucky with her patients; a bad nurse who just didn't get how sick her patients were) she still doesn't deserve to be in prison for the rest of her natural life.

If she's guilty, there's so much controversy that the families will never feel that justice has been served. It must be sickening to believe that she's guilty and to hear so many people defending her.

The police had a duty to present the evidence objectively. They didn't. They cherry picked.

Lougle · 22/01/2026 07:53

Glowingup · 22/01/2026 07:45

I don't know why she had such a poor defence. They could have, and should have, poked gaping holes in most of the evidence, even if they thought she was guilty.

I think you need to ask why someone who is at the top of his field in criminal law (far far more eminent and respected than Mark McDonald) would completely out of character present a poor and negligent defence. The answer is most likely that he didn’t. He presented the case in the way that best served his client. By the way he did poke holes in the evidence. There were weeks of meticulous cross examination if you followed the case.

But did he really understand the context and the culture, etc? Something has gone wrong. There wasn't this much controversy when Harold Shipman was convicted (I did a deep dive into his case for uni). Beverley Allitt. Charles Cullen (USA). Why Lucy Letby? I really don't think it's just because she's pretty.

CommonlyKnownAs · 22/01/2026 08:01

EyeLevelStick · 22/01/2026 07:25

I think very many people understand how the jury system works. We are rightly concerned that in highly technical cases, such as medical murder and complex fraud, most jury members have neither the knowledge nor the intelligence (remember, 50% of people are below average intelligence) to assimilate the evidence.

That, together with the cherry-picking of evidence by a self-selected lead expert witness suggests not only that Letby has not had a fair trial, but that the babies and their parents have not been treated with due care, respect or dignity at any point.

Yes, it's odd how many posters think saying some variation of this is how it works end of is in any way helpful, let alone determinative. We all know that. The jury service system isn't a secret, lots of people have been on one and experiences clearly vary enough that even in this one thread people have quite differing opinions.

I don't think this case can be made a non-shitshow now, whatever happens. But what we can do is acknowledge the incredibly obvious problems here, and try and fix them for the future. I don't mean things like the consultants lying, people doing that to try and save their own reputations is normal human behaviour and probably can't be prevented. But the structural stuff.

The Law Commission has been warning about issues with expert witnesses for years, and been ignored. The system we have of addressing miscarriages of justice that isn't fit for purpose. The fact that we can have an expert witness misunderstanding scientific evidence in court and nobody having the knowledge to correct him. These are all things that we could address.

NotAnotherPylon · 22/01/2026 08:04

Some of the hyperbole on here. Posters being accused of ‘defending a baby killer’. That would require them to believe she is definitely guilty but that there is a ‘good’ explanation as to why she did it. Nobody is defending her. They are questioning the guilty verdict. With the very obvious implication that she might be innocent. Such dramatic language isn’t helpful. You can say you believe justice has been done without the insults.

Imdunfer · 22/01/2026 08:10

FullOfLemons · 21/01/2026 21:57

Well, the question from the OP was about the conviction and potential for a retrial.

How is your point about being “on the fence about her guilt” relevant to this ?

Did you read the post of your own that I quoted and answered? My answer to your own post being the one you've now quoted and attacked me for it not being relevant to the OP?

Imdunfer · 22/01/2026 08:23

@Glowingup They have convinced themselves that the prosecution hid evidence from the defence.

Your wording suggests that's not true and is also pretty insulting to the people holding that belief.

A quick Google gave me this. In addition an email came to light afterwards (so what else have the police missed in their investigation? ) which shows that a consultant committed perjury at the trial.

  • Statistical Analysis: Reports suggest the prosecution did not disclose that police had engaged, and later dropped, a medical statistician (Professor Jane Hutton) tasked with analyzing the deaths and collapses to ensure all causes were considered.
  • Unshared Expert Opinions: It was reported that the prosecution did not disclose that their own experts believed other cases were due to insulin poisoning, which for unknown reasons were not presented in the same way.
  • Issues with Expert Evidence: Subsequent investigations have pointed to a failure to disclose that Dr. Shoo Lee, a co-author of a 1989 study on air embolism used by the prosecution, disputed how his research was applied to the case.
  • Hospital Documentation: A tribunal relating to the hospital trust where Letby worked found that some key documents were not accessible, and others were destroyed or deleted, in a separate, albeit related, employment case.
Imdunfer · 22/01/2026 08:32

Glowingup · 22/01/2026 07:41

I don’t get a sense that they were utterly surprised. They simply expressed disappointment that no new charges were brought. Seems fairly normal to me. By the time these came to trial, the events would have taken place around 15 years ago. It was always going to be very difficult.

I think the deeper problem revealed on this thread and on social media is that people think that the jury and legal system is so flawed that it can’t ever deal with this case. They won’t be happy if she gets her retrial. They have convinced themselves that her incredibly competent defence barrister at trial was negligent and mismanaged her case. They have convinced themselves that the prosecution hid evidence from the defence. And that she could apparently never get a fair trial. What does that mean then? We just let her out?

I don’t get a sense that they were utterly surprised

It isn't normal in any way for a police force to issue a formal statement saying that they disagree with the Crown Prosecution Service decision not to prosecute and to state that they believe they have presented enough evidence for a prosecution to proceed.

It's effectively saying right out loud "Cheshire Police believe that there is an ulterior motive in refusing to prosecute these cases".

I think that's pretty much unheard of.