Help me decide mainstream or Sen

[firstofallimadelight]

Firstly I know that we are unlikely to get the final say but we are currently trying to choose a school for secondary for dd, she’s autistic and has full day 1:1 support. She is taught outside the classroom by the 1:1 for a large portion of the day as she struggles to cope on classroom. Doesn’t go outside at break or lunch as can’t cope. She’s highly academic and above age related for most subjects. Until last term ourselves and school have been confident a good secondary mainstream is the way to go but as time goes on dd is struggling more and we are starting to be concerned she may struggle in mainstream without a full time 1:1. (Secondary’s we have visited stated they with have support staff in classroom but no assigned support for a student) we have visited a couple Sen schools and are more confused than ever.
options-
mainstream 1
800 pupils school over two sites (including a road crossing) roughly 25 kids in a class, big focus on emotional needs, on site counselling. A semh hub on site plus a nice Sen room. Large support team. Heard positives re Sen.

mainstream 2
600 pupils school for yr7-9 (older children go to another site) lots of different blocks for classes, roughly 30 kids in a class, no real Sen space just a empty class kids can access if needed. Heard positives re Sen.

Sen 1
sen school for semh and communication issues , works similar to a regular school except 10 to a class and 3 staff in each class. Has animals and allotment. No 1:1 support. Option to do around 5 GCSE’s inc eng, maths , science. Can also do life skills/diplomas.

sen2
an independent school currently has 20 kids (total) won’t take more than 28. Lots of staff, small building, bit chaotic but very much tailored to each child’s individual experience. Most children do around 3 GCSE’s plus life skills may be able to do more but not guaranteed.

What would you pick?

Does she have an EHCP?

Yes

Is there a mainstream independent that might suit her needs that they could name on ybe EHCP?

Sen 1 sounds great

I think it's between school 1 & school 3. We went with MS and DS ended up out of school and very much needing the SEN system. I think I'm too close to our own situation to advise.

I would recommend looking at what grades & number of subjects sixth forms and unis require in practice.

Thanks this is the fear choose mainstream and she may fail (at mainstream not exams) choose Sen and wonder if she could have achieved more.
further education usually requires 5 GCSE’s but mainstream typically offer 8-10

1:1 can be provided in secondary mainstream. If 1:1 is detailed, specified and quantified in F, then it must be provided regardless of what the school typically provides or wants to provide.

However, if DD can’t cope in mainstream primary, she is unlikely to cope in secondary MS, 1:1 or not.

Similarly, 1:1 can be provided in SS if it is required. It would need to be in the EHCP but it is possible.

If the first SS is SEMH and C&I, what is the behaviour like? Some SEMH schools can be overwhelming for some DC. Would DD cope?

Is the independent SS wholly independent or a section 41? If the former, will they offer a place?

If you went for SS, you could look at some provision otherwise than at school to meet DD’s academic needs.

Not that I’m aware of but worth a look thanks

My DD ended up at a SEMH special school for year 6 after mainstream primary place broke down. It wasn’t great. The majority of the pupils were violent boys and there was a lot of disruption. There was only one other girl in the year and DD felt isolated socially. We managed to get her into mainstream for year 7. They were able to put a 1:2 TA in place with a compatible student. It worked brilliantly DD passed all GSCEs and is now doing well at college. It was a risk and only worked because the SENCO was committed to supporting DD.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Our DD had a much better experience in secondary than primary, we were really fortunate,

Thank you

i would like to try ms with full time 1:1 (her EHCP is fairly robust in support needed) currently mainstreams have said no so LA are negotiating. I’m concerned she won’t get full time 1:1 in secondary

the 1st Sen is LA school, I agree re behaviour /sensory it is a concern. I think there is issues with children melting down etc.

I think the independent is a 41? Is that good or bad? I could see her coping better there but not sure she will get a good standard of education

@firstofallimadelight not sure why you're assuming she can't continue to have 1:1 for secondary school. The transition EHCP review is the place to push for that. I'd say give mainstream 1 a try with 1:1 support given the strong SEN infrastructure. She can always move if it doesn't work out, that's the point of the statutory at least annual review of the EHCP. But I'd be wary of closing down her academic potential in the first instance.

I’d go for school one.

SEN 1 sounds good to me. In your position, I’d rather my child was part of a group of students with similar needs and a couple less GCSEs than have the option of 10 GCSEs but be unable to integrate with peers and experience regular break and lunchtimes.

Even if you win the battle to get a designated, full time 1-1 for the entirely of your child’s secondary education, which is unlikely, it would still mean them being segregated.

Thanks when we visited the mainstream schools both said they don’t offer 1:1 just a ta in class to help any Sen kids with learning and could be different TA’s in different classes. But I guess that’s standard practice but it could be different for dd

The MS can’t just say no. They aren’t independent so they can be named even if they object. If they are your preference, the LA must name them unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

The bar to prove one of these is higher than LAs and many schools admit.

Look at section F of the EHCP carefully. Is full-time 1:1 detailed, specified and quantified or is it vague and woolly? 1:1 can be provided. Ignore what the schools are saying. But, it needs to be in the EHCP.

It can be easier to get a section 41 independent named because you don’t need an offer of a place and there are limited reasons the LA can refuse to name it if it is your preference. Whereas, you need an offer of a place for wholly independent schools.

If 1-1 is written in the EHCP, in a very unambiguous way, then that is what the school should provide. As long as the wording is clear, in terms of what type of support is needed, number of hours per week and any additional therapies.

@firstofallimadelight the school wouldn't provide it from their own budget but the local authority can give the school extra funding to make that provision for her via her EHCP. The same will be already be happening with the primary school, so really it would just be a continuing cost to the LA.

Remember that part of an ehcp is to help a child reach his/her potential. So do you have an idea of how DD will do in SATS? What do you think/feel she will achieve at 16? You can use that to demand the right school as sats results are used to gauge likely outcome for gsces til at least year9.
Be aware that if DD is v academically able, mainstream school provision often relegates students to lower sets and this removes chances to get good gsces. And higher set teachers often don’t think about differentiating as whole class is pretty motivated to work independently. And also check quality of 1:1 staff. If DD is going to do GSCEs at a high standard, then support staff have to walk in step with her as she goes further up the school ie be close to teacher level rather than caring TA.

@Seelybeshe gets the highest funding package currently. Think it’s 24k a year? I assumed that would continue into secondary unless the school requests more.

Ex teacher

my mainstream school had a lot of students with Sen.

in general those who had EHCPs stating 1:1 would get a TA assigned to them on the first day. They’d then keep that TA for a few weeks. After that they’d start introducing other people. So the student would always have a TA, it just wouldn’t be the same person all the time.

this was for a number of reasons - in case a TA was off it meant the student had a relationship with two or three or more TAs and was less likely to meltdown.

it also helped them build relationships with adults - as they get older even the ones that are likely to go into supported living will have multiple carers and it’s good for them to slowly expand the number of people they can trust and work with.

we took in a lot of students like your child who had been effectively taught by a TA for primary. Most of them we were able to integrate back into lessons for at least some lessons and for nearly all they were able to do specialist Sen classes on life skills etc in a group of other Sen children.

so - you need to ask more detailed questions of the mainstream schools. Do they have a nurture group of students with Sen where there is a smaller class size?

more specifically, what is it that your daughter doesn’t cope with in the classroom? The specifics matter here.

@Octavia64thanks, that could work if she got to know/trusted a few adults. There is a nurture group at school 1 and 2 but it is typically for kids who are behind academically.
Not coping in the classroom has been the last few years. I think it’s a combination of struggling with sitting for long periods (helped with sensory breaks) Noise in the classroom- kids shouting out or teacher shouting. I get the impression it’s a fairly rowdy class/year. She’s been low level bullied and a few kids have picked on her in class to enjoy the reaction )this has been dealt with mostly but has left an anxiety

@Octavia64she also just wants to get on with work struggles with waiting/turn taking, struggles to engage in things that don’t interest her.

I would go with a Sen school, preferably one that can offer at least some GCSES. Mainstream secondary schools are loud, busy, socially demanding and overwhelming for many.
My son is doing ok in a mainstream primary (autistic, ADHD and dyslexia) but I worry about the demands of high school. He is academically able but struggles with everything else. Ideally he'd have a full GCSE curriculum in a class of 10-12 children with minimal transitions. This doesn't seem to exist though.

Focus on the provision detailed, specified and quantified in F rather than the funding. If it is detailed, specified and quantified in F, it must be provided and can be enforced. The LA is ultimately responsible for ensuring the provision is provided. That includes ensuring there is sufficient funding.

The EHCP can include wording to ensuring it is consistent TA or 2 if necessary.

Surely the ehcp will pay for her 1:1 in mainstream? Im which case mainstream 1. Can you speak to your local autism advisor about a special school that does academic subjects? Could do first special school and she can do more subjects thsn most?