Help me decide mainstream or Sen

[firstofallimadelight]

Firstly I know that we are unlikely to get the final say but we are currently trying to choose a school for secondary for dd, she’s autistic and has full day 1:1 support. She is taught outside the classroom by the 1:1 for a large portion of the day as she struggles to cope on classroom. Doesn’t go outside at break or lunch as can’t cope. She’s highly academic and above age related for most subjects. Until last term ourselves and school have been confident a good secondary mainstream is the way to go but as time goes on dd is struggling more and we are starting to be concerned she may struggle in mainstream without a full time 1:1. (Secondary’s we have visited stated they with have support staff in classroom but no assigned support for a student) we have visited a couple Sen schools and are more confused than ever.
options-
mainstream 1
800 pupils school over two sites (including a road crossing) roughly 25 kids in a class, big focus on emotional needs, on site counselling. A semh hub on site plus a nice Sen room. Large support team. Heard positives re Sen.

mainstream 2
600 pupils school for yr7-9 (older children go to another site) lots of different blocks for classes, roughly 30 kids in a class, no real Sen space just a empty class kids can access if needed. Heard positives re Sen.

Sen 1
sen school for semh and communication issues , works similar to a regular school except 10 to a class and 3 staff in each class. Has animals and allotment. No 1:1 support. Option to do around 5 GCSE’s inc eng, maths , science. Can also do life skills/diplomas.

sen2
an independent school currently has 20 kids (total) won’t take more than 28. Lots of staff, small building, bit chaotic but very much tailored to each child’s individual experience. Most children do around 3 GCSE’s plus life skills may be able to do more but not guaranteed.

What would you pick?

What’s her main reason for 1:1
btw?

How would it work in reality? You would need funding 35 hours a week. You would need extra staff to cover lunch etc. What if the TA is off sick or needs training days? We can’t get TAs as it is, due to the demands of the job and the poor pay.

Also there are definitely sen schools that offer higher academic qualifications but youd need to speak to an advisor at your local council

Yes that would be perfect.
There is another mainstream that’s only 20 kids a class but it’s notoriously hard to get into. Doesn’t do TAs due to smaller classes and there’s a compulsory residential that’s a couple hours away for 5 days on the first week of school. Dd absolutely would not cope.

Emotional regulation, transitions, breaking down information, scribing (at times) sensory breaks, social support

Not in our La, the one i described is the only one for age related all other Sen schools are for at least 2 years behind academically

Oh dear, what about a nearby LA? Are you close to a boarder of anothet? Technically they should keep looking until they find one that works- up to an hour’s drive is standard.

Sounds like mainstream wouldnt work tbh :/

In my experience with 3 children with SEN, MS secondaries are awful for autistic girls, the social pressures are huge, the focus on really petty rules yet awful behaviour at the same time, the lack of access to toilets etc. Schools might say they have TAs and nurture rooms etc but the reality for my daughter was that there were so many children with SEN that no one ever had time to help her. The SENCo even said to me, "no one here has time to help your daughter, we all have jobs to do" while my daughter was so stressed she couldn't enter any classrooms, she was left in the "nurture" room all day with no support, no work to do. She eventually couldn't go at all, she lasted 4 months there.
My DS was at a SEMH Special School which was also not right for him. He found the other children's behaviour so frightening, so much aggression and anger, and no one wanted to learn so he barely learnt anything except swear words for the 2 years he was there.
If at all possible, if you could find a small, independent mainstream, these seem to be the only places that actually have the resources and time to care for children who are bright but need a bit more support.

I think it would be a shame for an academic child to do 5 or less GCSE's, that's Eng lit/lang, maths and 2 sciences. It's going to really limit her options after GCSE's. Obviously though you've got to balance that against the possibility of her ending up school refusing in MS because she can't cope.

I'd go for mainstream 1 though and see how it goes. The problem with secondary is all the moving around, different teachers, different seating plans and different kids in every lesson - ds (ASD) found it difficult to make friends but spent most of his free time in the library which he loved. Would she tolerate loops to help with reducing noise in the classroom if that's an issue? I'd also have her sat right at the front of the class so she's not trying to filter out the distraction of of other kids (really helped DS). They need to be putting a lot of things in place to support her.

There is in the nearest city and integrated classes too but it’s about 75-90 min drive each way. It’s just not feasible unless we moved house.

I would look for a secondary school with an ARP. So they are based in there but have access to mainstream classrooms. I would also find out exactly what the SEN provision the mainstream are offering. Is it a space where lessons and learning take place, or just a breakout room they can access if they feel overwhelmed.

If I had to choose based on the information you have given, I would probably go with one of the specialists schools. If she is doing well, you can arrange for a tutor or discuss with the school maybe some online learning she could access to do additional subjects.

I fought for separate provision within a mainstream school because dd is brights and no sen schools in my area offered a decent amount of GCSEs. Took a lot of adjusting but eventually she worked at the back of the school office basically in a cupboard with a laptop, work set by her class teachers and she was free to attend lessons in person if she wanted to (she didn’t mind maths lessons and loved music) she got 13 GCSEs 12 at a or above so I was right! Unfortunately there is insufficient provision for bright autistic children who can’t cope with noise or chaotic classrooms. She really needed a 1960’s classroom all sat in rows in silence, she actually told me she wished school was like the Victorian school they went to on a trip

Is there an option to do sen 1, and then homeschool her for an extra 5 GCSE's. You would need money to throw at the homeschool aspect, I think it's about 3k per year..

Some DC do travel 75-90mins for the right secondary placement. The maximum recommended travel time is 1hr15 but some travel further.

@cotswoldsgal1234 as LA’s have been shown time and again, lack of funding, resources or staffing is not a lawful excuse for failing to provide SEP detailed, specified and quantified in F, and it can be enforced.

If you are after SEMH ask about "big behaviours." You don't want a school full of kids whose dysregulation shows through explosive behaviour if your daughter isn't that way inclined. They're like hens teeth but they do exist. We found one for our son and also I work in one

Oh it's tough. SEN 1 sounds perfect BUT do the results stack up with the hat she can achieve, which often seems to be the downfall with SEN schools - parents are left feeling like they are sacrificing what their child could achieve.

Otherwise mainstream 1...but can you get her to a stage where she is comfortable and able to thrive without 1-1 support?

Are there any mainstream schools with ASD bases near you? That’s what’s been suggested for my DD who has a very similar profile ( whether we get a place is a different matter). They’re still boy heavy, and how much they integrate with mainstream varies, but we’re looking at one where they can attend the base full time, join mainstream classes with support or do a mix of both.

Sen 1. If she's feeling overwhelmed in secondary main she won't be able to learn anything. Mental health must be a priority in deciding.

Not close no I agree it could work better

Thanks everyone it’s really helping to talk it through

How do you enforce it if you don’t have the staff?
Have you worked in a state secondary school or do you live in another world?

Parents can enforce special educational provision detailed, specified and quantified in F of EHCPs via judicial review if necessary.

Ultimately, it is the LA who is responsible. Difficulties recruiting are often cited as a reason why provision detailed, specified and quantified in F cannot be provided, but when faced with enforcement action it is rarely an actual issue because LAs know their duty is an absolute duty that is non-delegable and lack of funding, resources or staff are not lawful excuses for breach of section 42 of the Children and Families Act 2014. LAs often only start taking parents seriously when they see parents know the law and will advocate and enforce DC’s rights. They start to take notice when faced when legal action. LAs can provide more funding, potentially substantially more to attract staff. Higher wages, potentially much higher wages (one case I supported is now funded at the level of the teaching MPS and many, many others at a much higher rate than the normal LSA/TA/HLTA rate because that is what is required to fulfil the LAs’ legal obligations) attracts more applicants and an appropriate appointment can be made, but LAs won’t do this unless forced.

I don’t work in a secondary school. I do, however, support parents of DC with EHCPs, including where the LA is acting unlawfully, and have enforced my own DCs’ EHCPs.

I’d go for SEN 1.
mainstream high school is a bit overwhelming, and the support isn’t always there.
A specialist school that offers similar opportunities and some extra curriculum activities sounds great.

I have worked in a large secondary school for 17 years No pupil has ever been given full time TA support. There are never TAs in design subjects, PE, etc - this can be a nightmare for teachers.
You can’t magic up TAs. If you barely make minimum wage, why bother with all the stress?