How do I get my daughter to stop swearing at me?

[cheeseonitsown]

She is 8 and swears at me all day, tells me to shut up, fuck off, calls me a stupid bitch, idiot, twat.
I do not swear and don’t want this language in my home let alone from a child.
When I tell her not to do something she will ignore means do it anyway or say one of the above phrases, even if I repeatedly tell her to stop doing something she will carry on.
I remove one privilege after another until there’s nothing left and she’s still telling me to fuck off, hit me or kick me and she doesn’t care what I say or try to do.
How do I make her stop?
She’s worn me down so much, I am quiet and softly spoken by nature and have anxiety so I try to be firm and assertive but she’s loud and confident and just walks over me it’s destroying our relationship and being called names and talked to like dirt all day really affects my confidence and I feel so overwhelmed with her right now.

“We have completely lost control of her.” So she’s doing this to her father too?
Walk away. There’s no point in telling an empty space to fuck off is there? She needs a recipient. Deprive her of this. It’ll weaken her.

Thank you, we have spoken to the sendco a few times as we needed letters from her for the GP for a referral for assessment.
I will look up the book.

Film her doing it, and tell her you are going to show her teacher at school. She will go apeshit, but she has to learn.

By the way, you are an adult. You are allowing yourself to be bullied by a child. Sorry to be harsh, but you need to grow a pair and assert yourself.

What are you seeking assessments for? It maybe impact on the advice you’re given.

This is what we do but will definitely continue with it as I have read this in so many books.

It sounds like there's a lot of punishing to the point where you've lost all control. How much time do you spend building connection?

What fun things do you do with her? What games does she like? What stories does she like? What do you do together? Really work on building that connection and really pull back on all the punishing. You cannot punish a child into being nice and lovely. Please please don't try and shame her into either as a PP suggested. The more she likes spending time with you, the more she will want to please you.

I would go as low demand as possible. When she gets home from school I would not ask her questions and not expect her to do anything - allow her to decompress quietly with a drink and snack. Maybe a story at the same time if she'd like that.

I would have a very clear evening routine that is the same every day (as much as possible). I would stay very calm and model the behaviour you want from her.
Same at the weekend, as much as possible. Ignore the swearing and rudeness, it's done to get your attention and a reaction. At most say 'you're being rude' and walk away. Don't get pulled into any kind of back and forth argument. Notice any little bit of good behaviour and praise. Make sure she is getting lots of cuddles and you telling her you love her - she'll know if you're just saying it though so make sure you're really feeling it.

If you want her to do something then always give her a warning 10 and 5 minutes before. For example before dinner or if you need to go out. Ask her to do things but then leave her to do them in her own time, Remind her politely if she hasn't done in in five minutes. Be very clear with expectations but tell her the behaviour you are looking for not the things you don't want her to do. Be really positive. You need to be really consistent too.

These are the things I did with mine with ASD but they are equally good for kids that don't have it.

What happens if you just ignore her and walk away?

Autism and adhd I mentioned ODD to the doctor as I’d read it and recognised that in her and with the form they sent a section on odd too to fill out.
The Sendco thought she could see some sensory issues which she wrote in her letter so it’s a waiting game to see if it is.

A lot will be in opposition to my suggestion but I recommend watching episodes of Supernanny eg on youtube. Any will do really. Firm but fair works but you've got to be consistent and mean it.

My 10 year old is very similar. We are waiting for her to be assessed for PDA Autism, please look up pathological demand Avoidance. Punishments don’t work with PDA kids it’s all anxiety based and need for autonomy.

She must be hearing the words somewhere. What is she watching screen wise?

@downunder50 has some great advice.

What are the triggers to this? Is it normally from a demand placed on her?
Her communication is poor and she is showing you her frustration. This is also really common if children have a PDA profile so might be worth looking into that.

The work really needs to be done outside of these moments when she is more regulated. She needs to be supported to learn a better way to communicate. If she enjoys stories, you can focus on stories where the character is swearing at a friend and then ask her to make a judgement (when the focus is not on them directly, they find it easier).

When she is swearing, she is communicating to be heard. Before turning your back it would be good to acknowledge her anger/frustration and say something like “I can see that you are angry. I am happy to talk about it but you will need to find better words” - if she continues then walk away but acknowledge that you are willing to revisit the conversation when she is willing to speak to you better.

your goal is to improve communication and find out what she needs in that moment.

When a child is unregulated, they are looking for regulation. This can present in them going to the person they feel safe with and displaying their frustration. When you look at it like this, you start to change the way you respond. You can even try saying “I can see that you are frustrated, would you like a hug?” The pressure of the hug can help to regulate and then you can talk through what led to the situation, you can then explain how it makes you feel.

I am not suggesting that you forget consequences but removing privileges in that moment doesn’t work because she is unregulated so won’t care and it also shuts down communication by becoming a power play and your real issue is communication.

I have been through it and it is tough.

In reality I'd end up shouting at her or crying, awful practice. Advice wise I would get a good book and barricade yourself jnto your lounge, kitchen, or bedroom until she has calmed down.

My younger son does this. He is 26 now and it's like a compulsion for him.

I tried everything when he was younger and it always escalated things. It never ended well for any of us.

My advice is to ignore it. Act like she didn't say it. Stay calm, respond to the content of what she's saying rather than the words used.

Children are experts at acquiring language (it is part of their natural development). They hear adults or siblings swearing and they share new words with each other. It is normal for children this age to know these words but most don't use them much/at all.

OP, I would try a calm response like turning your back or completely ignoring. If she pesters you with swearing, then leave the room and don't engage with her until she has stopped. Make it boring for her and don't make it a massive deal.

My 13 year old autistic/adhd child does that. I remove his technology and tell him I will engage with him when he is calm and can speak to me pleasantly. When he is calm I speak to him and make it clear that behaviour is unacceptable. Does she watch tube? If pretty uncontrolled so the language can be terrible.

Have you thought about bringing her to some play therapy or art therapy etc?

But OP is saying they aren’t hearing it at home. My kids did not know those type of words at age 8!
Yes at 10 /older primary age but not at such a young age.

They can come across things like this on screens though which is why I asked as the OP is not using them herself.

I would say this isn’t ‘normal’ behaviour from an 8 year old at all.
Shes swearing at you because your her safe space. You’re going to love her whatever, even if you’re taking away all her privileges - and doing that is probably making her more angry so try and reward good behaviour instead.
She’s behaving at school because she knows the consequences if she doesn’t.
She’s obviously having difficulties somewhere - but s she neurodivergent? I’d start looking in to that.

I would remove everything from her room. Nice bed made up and bedside light and clothes but no devices. Leave some books and colouring and other toys. Make her room less overwhelming.

no screens, none, no switch, no games, no phone

Family rules:
play and share nicely
kind voices
do what you are told the first time

reward magnetic chart on the fridge

any swearing means she loses at least one star and keep going when she gets to zero she goes to her room and put her in physically and just say calmly no this is not acceptable you need time out in your room.
sit outside the door and repeat 10 minutes in her room and then reboot. And try again. No apology she stays in her room.

for the reward chart
gets dressed nicely 5 stars
give them out like confetti to start with for any nice behaviour

rewards are not iPad, switch, tv they are gone until behaviour is sustained and more mature.

reward is some time with you nice board game with pop corn, swimming etc
Reading or a new book calm her mind.

I have two ND daughters. Not extreme swearing but rudeness yes.

We still have no tv Monday to Thursday usually.

I wouldn’t wait for s diagnosis. If possible I would seek support from a child psychologist specialising in PDA. If nothing else you can off load to them a bit and they may give you some helpful coping strategies.

My advice would be, above everything else, do not engage when she is swearing. Lower your own understandable emotional reaction as much as possible. Be very calm and walk away and shut and lock the door behind you if you have to. Pick up and praise the tiniest positives.

Removing all of the privileges has become a challenge and a game to her, Stop all of that and try and get the message across that it’s a privilege to be together but you need to earn it by being pleasant. All attention and interaction stops the minute she becomes rude, And you and your dh must work as a tight team together.

And keep up your own morale by doing things that boost you up. Get lots of breaks and see friends regularly. Don’t become too emotionally bogged down because it’s incredibly draining. In other words, don’t feel guilty about taking time away to refuel.

Please don’t follow this. It’s highly inappropriate for most children, especially a ND child.

I see others have mentioned it but if you're at the cross roads of investigating asd and odd, I would also look at pda which might be a better fit than the asd/odd combo

My advice from our lived experience would be to not react hugely to this - which I know goes against how you feel but hear me out. Slightly bored and irritated, dismissive - "until you stop swearing, I can't help you" rather than a huge reaction can be more effective. "I don't talk to you like that and I don't expect you to talk to me like that, now go away.". In our family, we did very little punishment because it didn't work (as you say, you run out of things to take away, it increases anger in the house in general and it dust work). It actually became a model for dc and they copied imposing punishments when they were displeased.

i would also be very very straightforward on what words they cannot use. It takes the power out of them. A list of them all up in the wall. Define each one with them when they use it. When Dc was saying fuck, I asked why they was bringing sex in to our conversation. Did they want to know anything about sex? Bitch - how am I a female dog, what kind of dog am I, how silly, does that mean you're a puppy?

By changing my reaction and sounding slightly bored and irritated, rather than a huge emotional response and by keeping a steady message - "I don't talk to you like that, dad and I don't talk to each other like that, and I don't expect you to talk to me like that. We don't use fuck / bitch / cunt in this house.' - we stopped this phase.

At 15, dc (with pda, asd, adhd) doesn't swear at all. Its not as satisfying as shouting and punishing, but in our experience, it did work. And you said that you thought the diagnosis which you're pursuing wasn't relevant. It's entirely relevant. It couldn't be more relevant.