Help me sort through a few 'food myths'?

[MarmaladeWhiskers]

I would love to swap over to pescatarian, whilst also eating dairy. Whilst I care about animal welfare and the environment, my main reason is that I don't really like or enjoy other meat, apart from a bit of roast chicken on occasion. My favourite dishes include wild caught fish such as salmon, cod and sardines, with a bit of tinned mackerel/tuna.

But I do hear a lot of stuff online that over the years has put me off! Most scientific articles and health related advice suggests this is a great way to eat for many reasons. But anecdotal information on sites such as reddit, mumsnet etc often say the opposite. It's a bit of a minefield.

So I would like to ask, how true are these reports?
I have seen threads where people love to add that a veggie/health focused relative/friend they knew died younger or got cancer at 50, whereas the red meat eaters were longer lived.
I see this a LOT, and have no idea if it is common, coincidence, or just people talking shit on the internet.
Also, people reporting that they need red meat to function. That eating only fish and dairy left them weak and unwell.

Whilst diet is very personal and all of these things are likely valid to some degree, it has put me off going over to just fish. I am past meno so not as worried about lots of iron, but don't want to miss out on anything essential.

Anyone with experience?

There are plenty of ways to have a balanced and varied diet without meat. The people who I know struggled as they were just replaying meat dishes with quorn or tofu without looking at their overall diet

Yeh, I have a lot of lovely meal ideas for fish, as well as non meat, but I am wary of the switch due to reports of tiredness.

I have been reading a good bit, and can't find any reason why fish should should be any less vital than poultry. I do get the impression from forums that a good deal of people who eat only fish report feeling weaker in general.
No idea if this is expectation or an essential truth.

According to my research, there's more iron in a good tin of sardines than a full chicken breast. But I am still confused.

there are many ways to eat healthily, the key is balance ensuring you get all necessary nutrients. Without red meat in your diet you do need to consider iron, and iron absorption particularly because plant based sources are harder to extract nutrients from, it’s recommended you have a good source of vitamin c at the same time. Fish is generally healthy but heavy metal contamination is a a consideration for larger fish, again fine in smaller amounts. I personally have fish 2-3 times a week, 1-2 veggie meals plus some chicken and other meats, I do find I’m tired without any red meat in my diet and tend to eat it 1-2 times a week but it’s locally sourced with low food miles (salt marsh lamb from 20 miles away is not a cheap option but so delicious and ethically sound as that land cannot be used for vegetables or grains)

You sound very sensible. Fish is meat too, but usually lower in fat than land animals. There's an awful lot of rubbish written. From the vegans I know, they aren't overweight and seem pretty healthy. However, adding in fish a couple of times a week will provide trace minerals. You can get iron from veg like spinach. In your position I'd try to get more info but from a reliable source, such as The Vegetarian Society. You'll be fine!
The only thing with fish is that (according to my vegan DD) just scooping it out of the sea is the least sustainable form of getting meat. So make sure you buy it from sustainable sources.

Ignore anecdotes. People will tell you if they knew a health conscious person who got ill or died young. Because it's memorable. Less likely to be surprised if an overweight meat-loving person gets ill.

The important thing is to have a balanced diet of not too much food and avoid overly processed food where possible.

If you eat complex carbs, lots of fresh veg of all different types, some fresh fruit, some protein in the form of fish, legumes, nuts or cheese etc and small amounts of good fats from dairy and plants every day, then your diet will be fine.

I do know a few long-term vegans who were advised to add fish to their diet occasionally, as they needed some essential nutrient that it's hard to find in a vegan diet. But most vegetarians are fine.

I have been vegetarian since being a young teen, and I am now in my forties. I have never experienced weakness or tiredness, and I am generally very healthy. I have never experienced any deficiencies, iron or any other vitamin or mineral.

I don’t think you have to decide any way of eating, really. I don’t eat much meat, as I prefer fish or vegetarian meals. I think eating the odd bit of chicken, as you are, is fine. I get a good variety of nutrients. Sometimes I might fancy more meat, and certain times in my cycle etc… I think, just respond to your body’s needs. There’s so much info out there now!

You can have a balanced diet being a meat eater/vegan/vegetarian/etc. If it’s purely dietary, then you should have no issue sourcing foods for a varied diet. If it’s more of an ethical/environment issue they you may want to check out the sustainability of certain fish/seafood (farmed salmon is pretty bad, I eat meat and fish but won’t touch it), and obviously the dairy industry isn’t great in terms of this either!

Thanks everyone.

I don't think I'd like to be full veggie, but it definitely can be very healthy!

I haven't eaten red meat since I was 18 and I am 53 now. It never flagged up as an issue with my health on tests. I can't recall even mentioning to the doc until I was in my 30's.

I thought I would require less iron now since I am post menopause. Who knows.
I did find out that chicken isn't going to give me many more nutrients than fish, so if I don't eat red meat, perhaps I'm overthinking it!

Some people seem to think that vegetarian food is meat and two veg without the meat. But it shouldn't be. So it's worth, for your veggie meals, to think more about centring beans, nuts and other protein. Quinoa, for example, is classed as a complete protein because it contains all the amino acid.

Not sure if this is helpful, but for science based diet advice I find these fact sheets useful. Some are very broad, some are for specific nutrients and some will not be relevant (such as ones for kids/pregnancy).
https://www.bda.uk.com/food-health/food-facts/all-food-fact-sheets.html?_gl=1wknnty_upMQ.._gaMTQ4NzI1NTMwNS4xNzY3NjkwOTU0_ga_7W0H5VXNW9*czE3Njc2OTA5NTMkbzEkZzEkdDE3Njc2OTEwMDYkajckbDAkaDA.

I think you need to take what you read on the internet with a huge pinch of salt.

I'm not really sure why you need to label it - eat less red meat if you don't like it, have some chicken on occasion, and eat more fish.

My take on it is that for me chicken is pretty low fat protein but I don't think battery farmed chicken is great and organic is expensive, so I try and be economical about it.

British Red meat - I think this is okay quality. Spinach and other veggies also have a lot of iron. You can build up your iron stores by eating a higher protein diet. I try not to have it more than once a week mainly as I'm not a huge fan but also want good iron stores.

Oily fish I'm sure they say 2-3 times a week. You've not mentioned shell fish, prawns, scallops, mussels are nutritious.

Eating more beans is a great thing you can do for your diet. As others mention beans and quinoa = a complete protein.

I take a combination of info from NHS guidelines and Zoe Nutrition podcasts.

Can't say I've ever noticed this as a prevailing viewpoint online and I'm vegetarian. It's hardly some weird faddy way to eat is it?

Plus as others say, why the heck would you pay the ramblings of strangers online this much mind?

Yes this. Don't rely on anecdotal 'evidence' from the likes of reddit. You need to find reliable, credible sources of information e.g. NHS

I’m currently studying dietetics and nutrition at university. You can absolutely get all the nutrients you need from a pescatarian diet. If you eat the right things you won’t be unwell or weak.

In fact red meat should be limited. Processed meat avoided. Protein in fish and dairy is just as bioavailable as in red meat.

Generally vegetarians have lower levels of cancer and CVD.

Ah! well I mostly encountered people saying they were tired or anaemic after quitting meat on mumsnet, so I suppose mumsnet must be the central home to rambling nutters online

On a serious note, I have definitely come across this often when researching pescatarian or veggie diets. Do any MN related search for these diets and a good amount of people claim to have needed supplements of an increase in meat levels.

I don't eat red meat so can't really limit it!

I do prefer fish, so it is good to hear that it can be a full source of nutrition. My own concern is that I don't enjoy beans or legumes, so would have to force myself to eat them. Will have to give it some more thought. Thanks everyone.

I’m pescatarian, and very healthy, I eat white fish twice a week, and oily fish twice a week. If we have an Indian or Chinese takeaway I have prawns with veggie sides. Today I’ve had cereal, yogurt,milk for breakfast. Lunch was a small wholemeal roll with egg, cress and tomato. Dinner was baked cod with steamed spinach and broccoli. I make a veggie chilli with chickpeas, which is lush. And a sweet potato soup with lentils, which does three lunches. My digestion is improved since quitting meat, and I don’t feel I’m missing out.

If I was you, reduce gradually, over two or three weeks.

We are not all the same, one man’s meat is another man’s poison. Find out what suits you best in terms of insulin spikes and keeping inflammation to an absolute minimum- that’s the real secret to good heath.

'Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.'

https://michaelpollan.com/reviews/how-to-eat/

My insulin's great, thanks.

Oh I don’t know .
AdvIce can be contradictory , I eat all types of fish and seafood , chicken, very occasionally a meal with pork , veggie meals and vegan meals and I limit dairy because I think I have a certain tolerance level and to go beyond that I’m very windy and bloated ( plus get a very stuffy runny nose too )
I also think I have a certain tolerance for wheat too but that’s easily solved by eating oats for breakfast and potatoes and rice with meals and having a bit less bread and pasta but not cutting it out .

Mumsnet is not a peer-reviewed scientific publication. The plural of anecdote isn't data. Humans respomd differently to different diets.

Why not eat the way you want and see how it makes YOU feel.