Kids and phones.

[Ludinous]

Just trying to figure something out really. I've been following another thread about mobile phones at sleepovers and there seems to be a lot of people out there who's 10/11 year olds do not have mobile phones, and whose parents seem incredulous that someone might allow their DC to have one.
Is this normal? Am I the bad parent? My DD has one and so do all her friends and cousin. I can only think of 2 main outcomes of this...either these parents are letting their children walk to or home from school, or stay in the house while nipping to the shops or whatever, without a means of contacting each other in an emergency. Or these kids aren't allowed to be anywhere or go anywhere without adult supervision yet which I find just as odd.
Just wondering what everyone else does?

I didn’t give DS a phone until he was 12, he didn’t walk home from school by himself (too far) so we didn’t think he needed one. If he went out to the shop alone I would give my phone so he called DH’s if necessary. Once he had the phone there were really heavy restrictions on what he could and couldn’t look at. When I was 8/9 and my dad started letting me walk to the shops alone we had walkie talkies to communicate 😂

You want your child to be able to contact you and be contactable by you at any time you feel they are at risk. In return, you're prepared to take all the risks that come with a child, especially a girl, having a smartphone. Cool.
I want my child to feel they can cope without this device with any situation the world may throw their way. I accept it feels uncomfortable to me when they are not contactable. But this way I think they healthily separate and become confident, functional adults. I want my child to feel safe to judge who is an appropriate adult to approach for help, or accept help from friends, if either is needed. I want them to problem solve rather than all me. I don't accept for my kids the risks to mental health that come with a smartphone.
You sound a bit defensive tbh. Its just a different way of thinking about it. You do you, and I'll do me.

My ds is nearly 11 and doesn’t have a smartphone. He has a Nokia brick phone which he uses sometimes when I leave him at home by himself. He often walks home from school by himself but won’t take his phone to school. I’ve told him that if there’s an emergency at home to just get out of the house and go to a neighbours, my priority is his safety rather than him worrying about calling me or ringing the fire brigade for example. As for walking home by himself I don’t really see why he would need a phone. As a society we are too scared of the risks of kidnapping / something happening to our child whilst out and about which is absolutely miniscule compared to the risks of smartphones. An 11 year old was killed at a rail crossing last year when he got distracted by his phone. Yes you can lock them down to a certain extent but it’s a slippery slope. Oh mum, Bella at school has a YouTube channel so can I have the app to follow her. James showed me this cool Lego hack on TikTok etc etc. In my experience of Apple products they are hard to lock down completely and the parental controls are not difficult to bypass. There are lots of scary statistics out there if you want to look for them. I’m not judging you, just explaining why my DS isn’t allowed one yet.

Love that!

I coped fine with all that and much worse BUT…

1. I was a latchkey kid from age 7, with fairly disinterested parents. I had to.
2. I don’t want DD to have to , if there’s no need.

It’s not that I tell her she needs the phone to cope, it’s that it’s there in case of an emergency.

My son is in year 6 and has never asked for a phone. Was thinking of one for starting secondary school as will be walking home alone . Any suggestions on a basic phone or smartwatch?

I teach secondary and I would say most children seem to get them for an eleventh birthday present or for the Christmas they are in Y6.

I do completely understand the reservations about them but equally I will be honest and say that as well meaning as my parents were they were very strict about things like this and they did result in me being isolated socially so I’m keen not to make the same mistakes. My children are only little so haven’t had to deal with this yet and I could well change my mind.

It's really nice to hear some else say what I haven't yet. Especially from a teacher. I hate the idea that my kid will be left out.

People seem to think Smart phone equals social media. My 11 year old has a smart phone but no tiktok, Instagram, Snapchat etc.

My 10 year old has a Nokia brick for the walk to school/when she goes out to the shops, park etc. Children that young shouldn’t have unrestricted access to smartphones, and definitely not social media.

Why do you think a phone is necessary for being without adults or getting home from school?

I don’t want my kids having access to the internet on a private device. I grew up with the Wild West internet of the 00s/10s and saw some horrific things by age 11 - porn, extreme injuries, terrorist executions, excerpts of snuff films. Really horrible shit that would just be shown at you with no warning at school, home, everywhere.

Most people I know of my age are virulently anti-phones for kids likely because of this.

Having a SmartPhone dies not mean having social media nor unrestricted access.

Mine got them in year 6 so that by the time they had to get to secondary on their own they could be trusted. Plus the bus pass is on the phone.
dd1 (now year 11) was never an issue. She doesn’t want tiktok etc and she thinks that’s all a bit brain rot. She is like Saffy from absolutely fabulous.
dd2 is a bit of a pain and has to have sanctions from bloody tiktok and Snapchat from time to time when she gets too sucked in and turns into a zombie. However that year group - year 8 - seem to use Snapchat exclusively to talk to each other so I’m not sure how much I can sanction that now.
Both my DDs go to schools that arnt walking distance and both schools have kids who attend from far and wide. If parents restricted phones/social media lots would be quite isolated especially in the winter.

Agreed! No 10/11 year olds need to have that rubbish!

I’m very adamantly strict with my kids 8 and 11 that they’re not allowed phones. I drop them and pick them up from school and wherever they need to go and they’re not allowed out on their own nor are they allowed home alone.
once my daughter goes to secondary school and needs to travel on her own then I’m buying her a brick phone.
i know im too much trust me I feel it but im so worried about online pedos and all the inappropriate content online.
dont judge me! Just trying my best here ◡̈
also to each their own! This is not a criticism of you or anyone! You do what works for you and your family!

What does it entail?

It's hard to get it right isn't it. I was strict with DS1, he had some apps on a tablet to communicate and was allowed certain things on my phone, but then he was being left out of things because all plans were being made on Snapchat. We had to weigh up a point of principle re the risk of social isolation and we caved and let him have one. He was 12. I see a friend who is very anti phones and her 13 yr old has no communication apps and I feel this is wrong for her and causes unnecessary upset.

What i don't get is the need for a phone for the kids to walk to the shops, surely the whole point is to learn independence. If they are phoning because they can't decide what to get or something runs out then they are not learning anything. The whole point is that they manage the task solo.

I also don't believe having a phone makes a person safer, to the contrary they are more likely to be targeted for mugging or to walk in front of a car. I saw a grown woman nearly get knocked down yesterday for this reason. That's before you even consider the risks of a smart phone.

I'm dreading the day my twins get theirs, we are only a few months away. Dh and I say we should have a wake the day before.

A child might be socially isolated if they don’t have SnapChat or other SM. This depends on the social group. In the same way I was isolated as a young teen because my parents wouldn’t let me stay out drinking in the park. You have to decide whether the downsides socially are worth it.

I don’t allow my teens to have any social media including WhatsApp. Interestingly it has had some social consequences. They are excluded from certain social groups but have naturally found groups of kids who are similar.

A lot of the other stuff is just about how you parent. Reasons people say their kids need smartphones:

• tracking. I don’t want to track my kids so that’s fine.
• walking to school/shops. I don’t need my kids to be able to call me when they do this. We live in a nice community and mostly there is no phone signal. They could take a brick phone.
• homework. They use a laptop.
• contact with friends. Call or message on a brick.
• Spotify. Mine use an old iPod or Alexa.

Smartphones are expensive and I am reluctant to hand them out just because. So far I have never felt that there has been a really good reason to give them one. The only compelling reason for teens imo is bus passes, but my dc get a lift to school.

In terms of cost, DD just gets my old phone when I renew my contract. Her current phone isn’t even available for sale new anymore.

Virtually every 10 year old at our school has one. They leave them in their bags. If they are caught with them they're confiscated. I'd say there's about 10 kids who don't have one they're are often teased and kept out of the loop of chat . It's very sad.

My dc got phones when they started walking around on their own. My 11 year old has asd and he won't be getting on e for a long time. My 15 year old rarely uses his.

That’s the other thing. It can massively depend on the area and demographic. It’s incredibly easy to say no when the vast majority of children in a class don’t have one. It’s still fairly easy when it’s half and half. It can become quite tricky though when your kid is the only one/part of a very small minority.

I’ve thought about this a lot and the world was a very different place then. Mothers were (mostly) home, there were pay phones, people knew more of their neighbours, there were even more things like corner stores and local small business you could go to and they’d know your mum and call her and she’d be home.

My 13 year old daughter got a phone for p6 when she was almost 10. My 9 year old son has a smartwatch and will get a phone when he’s 10. No social media, no YouTube or open internet access… but giving them a way to be in touch has given us all so much more freedom. I’m grateful for it.

My son walks a mile back and forth to school on his own - we are the furthest away from primary so he wouldn’t see anyone for the first and last bit of his walk. I definitely don’t want to normalise asking random people driving by for help if something happens. I like that my daughter can decide to have a friend round or go to McDonald’s or whatever with a quick text. My husband and I both work full time and we have no family here and two busy kids so a bit of juggling has to happen sometimes. Could it happen differently? I guess so. But this means we can get closer to having it all - my son can play out with his friends and I can call him back to pick his sister up from ballet because my husband got stuck in traffic. My daughter got on a bus going the wrong way, messaged me and I got her back on the right one (she can’t speak to strangers, she has situational mutism). I could come up with a dozen more examples but overall it’s been so, so helpful for us.

Mine for their phones age 10 as they went into y6. More to practice keeping it charged and not losing it and also practicing some walking to and from school themselves. This was so that once the needed a fully charged phone for getting about for secondary school that they would have less issues.

Some kids who have bus or travel passes have them on their phone these days rather than a physical card. Our county council will buy a bus pass for children but it has to be on the bus provider app. Not all travel cards are on the phone though as the local underground travel system uses plastic cards that are topped up.

As for sleepovers. I struggled with the charging of the phones when my DD started sleepovers. We always charged phones downstairs and I would have a time when they were removed for charging during the week and a little later on weekends. It seemed that when they went on sleepovers from y6 that they just had their phones in their room. This was when I started getting the ‘it’s not fair’ moaning for taking them off them. They were removed for 2 reasons - fire safety and also so they wouldn’t be on them all night. I was concerned when younger that they wouldn’t charge them safely in their rooms and would leave them charging on piles of washing on the floor or fall asleep with them under a pillow.

My children have a half sibling and she has had a phone since the start of this year - y5 and has been walking to and from school herself this year. My ex isn’t best pleased about it but his other ex has just done things her own way with their child. I thinks she also had an old phone in y4 that wasn’t taken between Mums and my ex’s as my children could text her.

Also, as a kid going to school in the 80s and 90s I would walk past several pay phones and would even need to use them to contact my parents if I was running late somewhere. In my town there is not a single pay phone about and even if there was, no one would know how to use them. Times have changed. I could knock on a neighbour’s door for help, ask the corner shop keeper for help etc. none of that now. We know our neighbours to chat to but not sure my kids would knock on them without calling me first and me suggesting they did. The corner shop keeper isn’t very socially. There are several who serve and are usually on their phones whilst serving and wouldn’t be approachable for a problematic teen.

I used to spend he’s writing notes for my friends to hand to them in school for a secret read to get all the latest gossip if I wasn’t on lessons with them. Kids will now text, send voice messages or video messages to their friends - as well as love video call them. My eldest who won’t be in a group chat due to social anxiety then complains when she is t invited out by groups of school friends. Usually it’s been discussed in a group chat. The last time she tried to meet friends from a group chat she turned up and no one else did. She had got the bus and alsorts to get there and then called me to let me know what had happened, that she would still look in the shops and get lunch but would be home sooner and I had to help her with bus times. She got a bus and underground train and did manage to get on the underground going the wrong way.