Kids and phones.

[Ludinous]

Just trying to figure something out really. I've been following another thread about mobile phones at sleepovers and there seems to be a lot of people out there who's 10/11 year olds do not have mobile phones, and whose parents seem incredulous that someone might allow their DC to have one.
Is this normal? Am I the bad parent? My DD has one and so do all her friends and cousin. I can only think of 2 main outcomes of this...either these parents are letting their children walk to or home from school, or stay in the house while nipping to the shops or whatever, without a means of contacting each other in an emergency. Or these kids aren't allowed to be anywhere or go anywhere without adult supervision yet which I find just as odd.
Just wondering what everyone else does?

I mean, it's not the removal of a landline if you didn't have one in the first place. No one has needed a landline for like 20 years now.
As for your first point I just can't agree with you at all. Firstly it's not a case of trust. In all of those scenarios I mentioned, not one of them has anything to do with whether my DC can be trusted or not. It's about the fact a kid of 10 or 11 can't do anything in those situations. How is my DD not knowing that I'm going to late home from work and therefore needs to go to her Nans an inability to cope with real life?!?
So I assume you're problem is with kids having mobiles in general and not just the smart variety?

My social circle is very anti-smart phones for children under 13. A lot of people have structured life to make it less needed - getting kids cameras, smart watches, etc. and adding back in landlines and record players, etc. I personally feel there’s a lot of evidence that suggests smart phones are bad for kids but every family has to make the decisions that are right for their circumstances.

Am I a bad parent by your definition? My 11 yo (year 7) has no phone. Neither does her friend. They meet and walk to and from school, sometimes staying for after school clubs. We don’t always know when they finish.

I am not judging you for giving your child a phone, you seem to think I’m irresponsible for NOT giving my child a phone? I am choosing to give her independence and trust.

No not at all. I have no problem with you not giving your DD a phone. Sorry, I didn't mean my posts to come over as judgy lol! I've just spent all day being argued at for trying to defend my opinion on another thread. I think it's very important to not make parents feel bad for their parenting decisions. I guess maybe it just comes down to how people are as people. Like, I wouldn't want my DW to go out without her phone incase something happened. I know she feels the same about me. So I guess we feel the same about DD. If something could be avoided by the having of a phone it just makes life easier. I guess a lot of my what if scenarios are rare but also it depends on where you live. We live in a small town so you can walk quite a distance without seeing people, it's a good half hour walk to DD's school. And none of her friends live in our direction. I just feel better knowing if something were to happen she could just ring me rather than having to hope for help from a stranger.

Because in year 6 (and 5) in my DD's primary school they can walk to and from school by them selves and obviously in year 7 they'll be expected to. (Obviously dependant on your proximity to school)

Yeah of course if there was someone about they would help them, I'd like to think, but I don't want to rely on strangers in that situation. Besides I'm not talking about a little trip. I mean a proper fall. Or a proper injury. I dunno, everyone's situation is different I guess. Me and my wife both work close enough to my DD's route home that it would take 10 mins max to get to her. Plus, and I get this is personal experience but my wife and her friend we severely beaten up at 13 by some other kids on their way home one day with no one around for doing nothing other than walking past the wrong place at the wrong time.
But also if I need to get in touch with her it's much easier.

We have just go our dc just turned 11 a phone but it's a big no to social media. Just allowing WhatsApp.

Most of those are things that are solved by:
. Teach them how to manage situations in advance, what if....
. Teach them to approach an adult for help
. Phone the school and ask them to relay a message
. Have a house phone (which of course could be a brick mobile with a £4 a month deal from asda).

I've seen a lot of people saying they got them when they went into year 7. We decided a little but earlier is better for ours so she can get used to having it. Keeping it charged and being responsible for it. She's a bit haphazard with it. Tends not to know where it is which is obviously bad when we want her to have it so we can get in touch with her if needed lol.

Kind of showing shes not mature enough for a phone then.

But I don't want her to have to approach a stranger for help. I've spent the last 3 years subtley telling her not to talk to strangers. Phoning the school is fine if whatever I need to relay to her happens before 3 o'clock and not in the interim period of her leaving school and getting home. As for the managing situations in advance, that's all well and good but it's a bit like saying good employees don't make mistakes isn't it. No one can be on the ball every day and honestly having a memorized list of what to do in any given hypothetical eventuality or emergency situation just seems excessive. If a kid forgot their buss money, they've forgotten it haven't they, there's no managing that. Or if they fall of their bike and break an ankle. There's no managing to be done. She'll have memorised my advice of sit there and hope someone walks by.
Yeah the house phone thing is obviously something that could be done. But really that's only a small part of it.

Not really. I mean, I don't always know where my wallet is. Doesn't mean I'm not mature enough to have one. I don't always remember my passwords either. Sometimes, I forget to take my water bottle to work. Sorry...to immature for that water then...
Besides. Better that then it be stuck to her hand all the time surely?

Thank you. It seems like it's a very decisive subject. It's nice to see someone on the same page as me. 😜

Unless she loses it at school or on the way home and you can't get in touch with her.

One of the reasons my kids Orimary ended up banning phones.... along with WhatsApp drama and bullying.

Well yeah of course but not having in something incase you one day lose it isn't a very good reason to not have one. A bit like not buying a car incase one day you crash it.
To be fair they have to give them in to teacher during the school day so she couldn't lose it at school.

The thing is, people who are against them (fair enough) will never see any reason as a good reason for kids to have one, so there isn’t much discussion to be had.

Yeah that's fair. There's definitely fors and againsts. Lol. I think I was just surprised, (based on the limited number of kids I see on a regular basis) at the amount of people against it on another thread. It seems a very common thing. And I suppose I just kind of fell into the camp of the good outweighs the bad if it's done properly and managed. I think the biggest thing is individuals know their kids best. I was just looking for a general discussion but people end up getting a bit shirty lol.

I don’t know if you have read the thread from the poster whose 14 year old son sent nude pictures to someone he met online who he thought was a girl his age.
That poster had had all the conversations with him, trusted him, never thought he would do such a thing…
She is far from the first person on MN to have to deal with a horrendous situation like that

I think the tide is slowly turning, so more and more parents are against them now, with some of them being pretty evangelical about it, particularly the middle class demographic of MN.

My 10yo doesn't have a phone.
My 12yo has a dumb phone.

Kids managed fine before smartphones in all these situations.
I think telling a child they need this device to help them cope is really unhelpful for building resilience and self confidence.

That is awfully. Obviously it is. But there's lots of awful things that happen all the time and if we all stopped doing everything in case it happened to us, no one would do anything. In October someone tried to abduct 2 boys playing outside is Surrey. Should we stop kids playing outside? Just earlier today I saw a report that 2 men and 2 teenagers had died in a car crash in Bolton. Doesn't that mean we should stop using cars? I know they are really blunt examples to try and get my view point over but stuff like what happened to the 14 year old you mentioned is awfully but its always happened, it happens now, it happend before smartphones and still does on pc/laptops. Anything with an internet connection. And will happen on whatever device comes next. The boy you said about was 14. Obviously that's even older than the kids we're generally talking about in this thread but it begs the question to everyone who doesn't allow their child on the internet. At what age is it ok? And what age do you plan on letting them have a smartphone or WhatsApp?

You look at Australia where they have banned social media for children under 16. They are doing their best to protect children from the worst harms of the internet.
Maybe read ‘The Anxious Generation’ by Jonathan Haidt.

They did cope, largely due to there being payphones everywhere and 1 parent always around. Or grandparents that didn't work. The world has changed a lot. Where I live the bus drivers used to let kids on for free. They don't anymore. If I was stuck. Say I'd lost my keys or something I had 2 sets of grandparents just sat around at their homes if I needed somewhere to go. My DD's grandparents all still work full time.
I feel the 'we coped before' argument is silly. We coped before cars and central heating but do you think they are bad ideas?
As for resilience. I'm relatively certain I don't need my DD to build up the resilience to know what to do if she needs a parent or help and hasn't got a phone. When's she building it up for? When she's adult and has a phone?

To be fair, I don't think anyone is suggesting kids should have social media. I personally think we should have it banned for under 16 in this country.