Who are they kidding? It's Oil, Oil, Oil, baby - Trump Thread #152

[Spandauer]

Back on US soil, an American citizen in a peaceful neighbourhood is gunned down by masked agents sent there to make people afraid.

Despicable, wretched people lying, lying, lying - all day, every day, about everything.

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5458156-war-crimes-and-peace-prizes-trump-thread-151?page=1

Absolutely agree. NATO is too busy defending itself and all eyes are off Ukraine 😢

For anyone interested in the Trump-tech-Farage-Russia links, can I recommend this podcast?

Carole Cadwalladr is always brilliant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=43m0LKNDz6M

More detail of Trump's threat of tariffs on countries which stand up for Greenland.

Trump threatens new tariffs on countries opposed to Greenland takeover
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9qpy952xvno

.

Any spare Iron Crosses knocking about? Feel a wholesale delivery to WH would be useful. They can get them gold plated and wear them with whatever passes for pride in there now.

Or wooden crosses and white hoods and some matches.

I've had the odd read through these threads in the past, but for the most part, I've been doing my best ostrich impression when it comes to Trump - bury my head in the sand and hope he goes away. But it's become impossible to ignore him. The headlines become ever more alarming. Such a dangerous man in such a powerful position. So I've decided to change my attitude and adopt a forewarned is forearmed approach. Although I'm not sure it will help me to sleep any better at night.

There are some very well informed posters on these threads and I look forward to learning from you all.

My apologies if I was inadvertently rude to you and others reading my above, @AcrossthePond55 - in my mind, I interpreted “they” as MAGATs and Trump followers and apologists, not normal Americans such as yourself and the many others who undoubtedly understand the destruction and havoc Trump is wreaking on your country.

I’ve been somewhat heartened this morning when reading Heather Cox Richardson’s latest from 16th January, the last few paragraphs of which I quote here:

"Democrats are outraged about Trump’s threats to undermine the entire post–World War II rules-based international order, and they note that Americans want lower health care costs and cheaper groceries, not Greenland.
Today eleven U.S. lawmakers, led by Senator Chris Coons (D-DE), are in Denmark, where they met with Danish prime minister Frederiksen and Greenland’s prime minister Jens-Frederik Nielsen. Nine Democrats and two Republicans sought to “lower the temperature” by assuring Denmark that the U.S. would not try to seize Greenland. Coons thanked the delegation’s hosts for “225 years of being a good and trusted ally and partner.”
Republican senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska told reporters that “support in Congress to acquire Greenland in any way is not there.” Her suggestion reflects the comment of Senate Armed Services Committee chair Roger Wicker (R-MS) after he met with the Danish envoys in Washington, D.C., on Wednesday. Wicker later said: “I think it has been made clear from our Danish friends and our friends in Greenland that that future does not include a negotiation” for the acquisition.
Representative Don Bacon (R-NE) went further, telling Wolf Blitzer of CNN that an attack on Greenland will lead to impeachment regardless of who is in control of Congress after the midterm elections.
'You don’t threaten a NATO ally. They’ve been a great ally. We’ve had bases on there since World War II. Denmark has fought with us—by our side—in Iraq and Afghanistan. So I feel it’s incumbent on folks like me to speak up and say these threats and bullying of an ally are wrong. And just on the weird chance he’s serious about invading Greenland, I want to let him know it will probably be the end of his presidency. Most Republicans know this is immoral and wrong, and we’re going to stand up against it…. I think it would lead to impeachment. Invading an ally…is a high crime and a misdemeanor.’”

He's TACO'd out of the Insurrection Act for Minneapolis.

...
On Thursday, Mr. Trump suggested that he might invoke the Insurrection Act, which allows presidents to deploy troops on U.S. soil to quell an invasion or insurrection under certain legal conditions. The Pentagon quietly alerted 200 Texas National Guard troops this week to be ready to deploy to Minnesota in the event that Mr. Trump followed through, according to a U.S. official with knowledge of the matter who was not authorized to speak publicly.

The Texas Guard soldiers have remained on standby since returning home from Chicago late last year. But by Friday, Mr. Trump had already pulled back on that suggestion — following a pattern of talking about invoking the act but not going through with it.
“I don’t think I need it right now,” he told reporters while leaving the White House to spend the weekend in Florida.
...
(NYT)

I wonder what would happen...

USA - well, 🍊🌮 really, "takes" invades Greenland.

NATO members grow a pair tell the USA to get the fuck out of leave their countries - not just closing their Embassy and removing their Ambassador, but removing all of their troops and every piece of their equipment at every base.

Something to ponder on a Saturday morning...

‘NATO members grow a pair’ well, wouldn’t that be a great day!

(edit: not sarcasm)

Are Denmark going to accept that white paper?

Peace in our time?

And just on the weird chance he’s serious about invading Greenland, I want to let him know it will probably be the end of his presidency. Most Republicans know this is immoral and wrong, and we’re going to stand up against it…. I think it would lead to impeachment. Invading an ally…is a high crime and a misdemeanor.’”

I like the words, but since he already does about ten things a day that Republicans know are immoral and wrong and should end his presidency, and he's (checking) still there...

The problem is - and it's a feature not a bug - that leaders are still help to account by their people and have to be seen to be doing the best for them.

You can imagine the headlines now if Keir Starmer told Trump to stop the nonsense and the UK suddenly faced a raft of measures* that immediately cause prices to rise and costs to business. Just turning off Google for the UK would cripple us within seconds.

And this is in a framework that already pits nation against nation.

So they are forced to act as if the loudest whisper can cause an avalanche.

*-regardless of any notional lawfulness. Nobody has stopped Trump so far.

This is also why the EU/UK need alternatives to American tech companies.
Although it's worth noting that simply turning of Google services or Microsoft would also destroy those companies overnight. Since immediately businesses worldwide would start looking for alternatives. Not to say Trump would never do something so destructive. But those sort of sanctions are a much bigger step than only tarifs. And not as simple for Trump to decide unilaterally.

I hope not.

There a demonstrations in Denmark in solidarity with Greenland

Bugger.

The rare valid point.

I forgot about google.
Although technically, don't they have non-US based operations that could just carry on?🤔
And they're private companies, they could do what the oil tankers do and just say "We're German/Spanish/Danish now" ??🙏🏻

I think most EU governments already make sure that the "cloud" they used is in the EU. So the actual data centres are on European soil. Plus, technically a lot of the big tech companies are based in Ireland anyway for tax purposes.
So I don't think it's as simple as America just turning of the internet. But the sheer level of interconnectedness is a concern

One thing he could do which is almost the opposite is try to block Google investment in the EU. But how you would force Google to do that is a question...

Plus, the only company in the world currently capable of making the machines that make the machines that make the most powerful chips is based in the EU (Netherlands). So Nividias share price would take a hit.

Google is banned in China. However, lots of Google systems are used behind the scenes. The whole web has so many intertwined companies that I have no chance of understanding it.

Re China again, they have no self developed OS. They did claim one a while ago, but it's a Linux distro. And China recently announced they have domestically developed their own Chip machines. When I say developed... ahem... copied.

I do think though that Denmark has played a blinder. Planned NATO exercises in Greenland, and invited the US to take part. Imagine the scene. US and Danish troops training together in Greenland. Then Kegsbreath orders them to attack ? Wow. That would live in infamy for eternity. That would put the Glencoe Massacre well down the list of infamous actions.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2026/0117/1553575-trump-greenland-protest/

A sister demonstration was scheduled to happen in Nuuk, the capital of Greenland, later this afternoon, to protest the US' "illegal plans to take control of Greenland", organisers said.

Demonstrators would march to the US consulate carrying Greenlandic flags.

@Jaichangecentfoisdenom

I didn't think you were rude at all, my friend. I guess I just get so angry at the MAGAts (rich and poor) who think "If he says it, it must be true" that my scorn came through in my post.

They SEE that prices are rising yet they don't believe that it's because of the tariffs. Oh no, it's because of Biden. Seriously, they actually believe that! The mind boggles, until we remember the people who drank the Kool-Aid (literally) at Jonestown.

"Too late too late was the awful cry"

It was cheaper to use MS etc .... no company could ever say "We're going to have to spend more on our IT to stay out of US clutches".

I know because I have sat in that meeting. MS sent in a licensing task force and before you know it your enterprise agreement has just become 1 cent under what it would cost to move away.

Technically we traded our liberty for security.

My skills are in 80% Linux and 20% Windows. I'll let you know when there's a move from Windows.

And Google own Android as Apple own iOS.

Me too. Also the "solution to all our records management is SharePoint" even though SharePoint is a records sharing not at record management tool.

It's not too late. It's just very very expensive for companies to do it at the last minute. And a massive headache. So as much as some people would like a really principled stand against US tech companies it wouldnt happen unless businesses were backed into a corner. But in that scenario it would hurt the US a lot more as well. But fortunately there isn't a massive button to the internet that Trump could just turn of.

It's the same as ASML and China chip making. At one point I think Boden managed to convince them not to provide chip making capabilities to China. However, it didn't seem to dent China's technical progress that much. The argument against doing that sort of blockading is that the rival country is then forced into innovating through necessity and you lose your technical monopoly. So arguably that might have happened with China although ASML are still dominant.
If America started trying to blockade European countries from using American tech firms, then through necessity they would have to switch to homegrown alternatives. Which there are, they are just smaller. Long term it would be good for small home grown tech companies, it would be hugely painful to other European companies and governments. But disastrous for the large American grown tech firms currently dominating the market.