I witnessed racism tonight and didn’t speak up

[Potteryclass1]

Previously when there has been someone who has expressed racist or homophobic views I have spoken up… eg intervened on a train carriage to say racial language is not acceptable, i’ve asked someone to leave my house. (My husband has a wide group of friends through a common connection and this was a newcomer to the group at a bbq at our house). I have stood up to people at work who have been racist even when my employer wanted to brush it under the carpet. And at the side lines of my son’s football matches I have calmly told a parent to be quiet even though I was told by other I was “making a scene”.

tonight a friend (Zoe) invited me out for a quick afternoon drink. She has been kind to me over the last few years.
She was with 2 friends: one I sort of know and one was new. The new friend was lovely (let’s call her Carol). The lady I sort of know is ok (let’s call her Em), but not my cup of tea.

a friend of Em (the sort-of ok lady) turned up -(let’s call her Lou). My friend Zoe said she wasn’t very keen for Lou to join but Lou had called Em and Em had already told Lou which pub we were in.

Lou spoke about a local family in the most disgusting racist language. The new friend (Carol) was uncomfortable and made an excuse to leave. I knew I should stand up to Lou like I have stood up to racist or homophobic people in the past. But I was paralysed. I am totally ashamed of myself.

i didn't want to upset my kind friend (Zoe). But in doing so I have stood by and allowed disgraceful and prolonged racist language to be spoken about a family I know (to say hello to, but not very well).

I left soon after. 8 hours later I cannot sleep thinking about how I stood by and said nothing.

Gosh. You've been very unfortunate to come up against all these racist incidences. Find it hard to comprehend how someone who had the balls to chuck someone out of their house for being racist at a bbq would hesitate to call out someone in a social gathering at a pub....

Cut yourself some slack OP. People online are always talking about speaking up and making a stand and calling things out but it's something that people talk about a hell of a lot more than they actually do. I'm also not convinced that it's always an effective thing to do.

I think it's better to use your words wisely and save this sort of thing for times when you think you stand a reasonable chance of making a difference.

Was about to reply words to this effect.

Totally agree with FrumptyHumpty. There wasn't an actual person there in front of you who was being abused, it was about a family who will never know what she said. It makes a big difference, and you can't be 'on duty' all the time: you were there presumably to just have a nice social end-of-year drink with a few other people, you weren't stewarding a protest.

I'd definitely tell Zoe how you feel about it & that you don't want to have any more contact with this woman.

Haven't read the thread but why didn't Zoe also call Lou out ?.

You did speak out then.
Sometimes it's impossible to change people's opinions or to make them realise that what they are saying is wrong
Be kind to yourself. You are not the person at fault here. Lou is

But I was paralysed.

You've said an awful lot of things but you haven't said why you were paralysed?

I've challenged racism. I very much doubt it's ever made any difference though. Unless the person is a child or very young adult, they don't need education, they're just awful people who are very unlikely to change their views.
Cut yourself some slack, I doubt challenging it would have any positive impact other than easing your own conscience. I do think it's different if someone there is a victim of racism as showing your support to them in the moment could make a huge difference, but this sounds like one of them situations where the racist would have either rolled their eyes and gave your comment no more thought or would've buckled down and caused a big confrontation.

Racism isn’t an ‘opinion’.

Unfortunately, those with entrenched views, and spouting it in front of people they don't know well, take any attempt to challenge their views as 'proof they are right' I'm pretty sure that none suddenly say 'you know what Jane, you are right, I'll never say that again'
Avoiding twats is the only way. Make sure your friends know that they don't 'invite' that person again.

Agree. I live in a huge multi cultural city and have done for 25 years. I have never really come up against any significant, overt, damaging incident of vicious racism. It’s usually based in lack of knowledge, leading to rolled eyes, laughing and often quickly settled between the people involved in my experience. You’ve been very unfortunate OP :(

You could always obtain Lous number and message her, and also let Zoe know that you don’t want to be included in any gathering at which Lou might be present .

Previously I have immediately challenged the racist person or racist language they used. Probably because I didn’t know the racist or their acquaintances, or in the case of work because I had a structure in place in which to do it (there are rules that govern workplace behaviour). This time I couldn’t do it (= I was paralysed) because I didn’t want to upset the social gathering or my friend. My friend is not racist but is definitely the kind of person who would say not to get involved in challenging it.

“The only thing needed for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing”…. (Paraphrase of a paraphrase 😆) Personally, as my dotta tells me, I have no disconnect between my brain and my mouth, so I could never imagine ending up in your quandary. Just make it right ✌🏾❣️

Ok, well you can't do anything about it then.

There are lots of threads like this on MN where someone wants some sort of support, because they sat there while someone was racist and said nothing.

I always feel more sorry for the people reading it who have actually experienced racism while people did nothing. I expect these threads are quite triggering for them.

But I don't know what you want anyone to say?

Are you looking for people her to make you feel better?

Doesn't sound like anyone actually said anything.
Its a bit after the fact for this occasion, but if you ever cross paths with her again, you can tell her that you do not agree with her views then.

You know you should have left with Carol, you didn't.

Twice you use the word ' kind ' re Zoe well she wasn't being ' kind ' yesterday was she ? as she chose not to leave either.

You can’t fix the world single handedly. You shouldn’t beat yourself up.

Ideally you would have done something, but you know that. There is no point beating yourself up about it.

I failed to challenge racist language on a train recently. I felt pretty disgusted with myself afterwards, but I guess I felt too nervous at the time (and I was with my daughter, who is more cautious about not aggravating strangers than I am). I do feel bad, and I wish I had acted differently.

But I am not going to let it rule my life. I will just try to do better next time.

It’s disgusting what people are feeling emboldened to say these days. I would have said something or left the situation and told my friend exactly why.

No one is asking op to “fix the world single handedly” don’t be ridiculous!
It’s a measure of her character that she is feeling uncomfortable about not speaking up. It’s good to think through what we might like to have done differently - it’s how we grow as people.

Being actively anti-racist is vital especially as our country seems to be worsening in this regard. You’ve done it before and you are a good advocate. I’d message Zoe and say that you will not ever sit at a table with Lou again and your reasons why. I’d also say that if you ever encountered someone with racist views again you would have no hesitation in challenging and you would expect Zoe to not only understand but to back you up.

No
i was looking for some advice as to how I make sure next time I do challenge it.

But you say you've successfully challenged in the past?

When "the most disgusting racist language" was being used, you should've just stood up and left with Carol 🤷‍♂️

This is why I don't understand what you want from this thread because the fact you could've just left and told her why, is really obvious.

I’ve explained this elsewhere. I left a few minutes after carol.