How do you deal with this type of 'debate' between siblings?

[coffeerevelsrule]

I'm an only child so no experience of this to draw on from my own childhood, which mainly consisted of me and much older relatives.

DS1 and DS2 aged 18 and 16 are very different characters but do get on for the most part. DS1 is passionate about politics and so on and very interested in current affairs. DS2 is not and quite often says things to sort of wind us up, like 'I might vote Tory to annoy you,' or 'Who's Keir Starmer?' (He does know). He's gay, which is relevant.

Yesterday they had a discussion that got incredibly heated and left me feeling quite upset and unsure how to deal with it. Basically ds1 was saying that the white working class are as oppressed as other groups such as people of colour or people of the lgbtq community, and ds2 was saying this isn't the case and he would never feel empathy for any working class person who was homophobic - obviously not saying they all are but that if they are homophobic it would cancel out any oppression they themselves had experienced. DS1 was saying it would therefore be DS2's fault if we have a far right government in the future. Also, earlier on speaking of holidays, DS1 said he wouldn't come with us to Vietnam due to the political regime in place and when I said we'd be staying in Europe next year anyway DS2 said he wouldn't come to Krakow due to lack of gay rights and abortion laws and DS1 said Krakow would be top of his list.

Oh so Chrsitmassy....I don't know how to handle this type of thing. As I said, they do get on but now it feels like there are a million topics we need to steer away from at the moment. I don't think DS2 has these types of discussions with anyone other than us (mainly DS1 - I stay out of it increasingly) while DS1 is back from uni and ready to debate!

They’re both old enough to get on with it, assuming it doesn’t descend into nastiness. I’d not be intervening much, other that to tell them to take the conversation away from me. They’re both working out who they are and forming their own views, and that’s going to involve debate, arguing black is white and generally being opinionated.

I’d come down hard on prejudice and out and out racism, homophobia etc but otherwise let them be.

Sorry but I'd have had a yell at the pair of them when they start going at it.
"It's Christmas and I want to hear none of it from either of you as you are spoiling Christmas. Shut up about your politics, religions and rights for a few days and give me some peace for goodness sake".

In fairness, while I’d generally leave them to it, I totally know there would be a point when I’d do exactly what @MrsCarsonsuggests. Tell them both to wind their neck in over Christmas.

DS1 - I love that you’re getting really into your course.

However, this is our family home and not a seminar room. Please keep politics out of general chat.

DS2 - Youre not 6. You know by now not to poke other people in the eye to deliberately start fights. Stop doing the verbal version too.

Otherwise I’ll go back to treating you bith like you’re still in primary school.

Now go and peel sprouts and debate the technique instead.

You don’t have to “deal” with it. At most, remind them to keep opinions civil in communal areas if it gets aggressively heated.
I have adult children - one who loves politics, another who is angered by their sibling’s enjoyment in rants-at-the-world…their relationship is much better now they no longer live in the same house, and have both matured enough to leave some topics alone in company. Lead by example and be firm about what you find acceptable in YOUR home.

Agree with others, remind them of basic manners when others are about and tell them to shut up and wind their necks in if it’s getting too much for you , otherwise let them have at it. I have 2 boys who are similar , think they enjoy a good verbal scrap tbh.

I'd completely leave them to it in situations where you're able to leave the room or tune them out. When it starts to significantly interfere with your comfort/peace or that of others in the household or guests, I'd firmly shut it down but without taking sides. Rules/edicts/suggestions like "no politics at the dinner table!" or "Oh, poor Starmer again! Can't we talk about football?" can usually be delivered with good natured humor but still firmly enough that - unless you have a "burn it to the ground!/I do WHATEVER I want" wanker on your hands - they're mainly respected, at least for the moment, and you get some peace.

Two of my siblings were like this as teenagers/young adults so my mum instigated a house rule of not discussing politics, religion, or controversial topics unless it's by prior agreement.

Tell them to tell a few jokes and funny stories instead, much better.

Spubds perfectly fine. Nothing wrong with robust exchange of ideas. Much better than group think and good that both capable of holding their own.

As long as not abusing each other it’s a lot more interesting than talking about the soaps / football.

They need to learn how to navigate these kinds of conversations in the real world and the family is a safe place to do that.
Do you ever join in their debates? Maybe you should and then you can model how to debate and discuss important topics in a respectful manner.
It is fantasy that they have strong opinions and want to discuss them with each other. They just need to learn the correct way to do it.

We are a debating family so if that was my kids I’d lob a few curve balls of my own in and break up the two party anti-fun rhetoric.

As long as the discussion isn’t becoming abusive I’d leave them to it. It’s difficult because when discussions become political it’s easy to feel like if you don’t weigh in people will think you aren’t educated or haven’t formed a view and it will be tough if you agree with one sibling over the other. Still, there’s nothing really to be gained by weighing in. You can say, if asked, ‘I have my beliefs but I’m keeping them to myself for now’.
I would have to intervene if I felt anyone was expressing views that were racist or prejudiced towards certain groups. Eg no one would be using racist, homophobic, ageist, sexist or ableist language in my home .

I think it’s actually quite healthy that they are trying things out and airing their views. Your DS1 does sound quite contemptuous of his brother, and (like many 18 year olds) also sounds like he doesn’t know quite as much about politics as he thinks he does. I would perhaps warn them you expect them to be kind and respectful, even when debating opposing views.

You leave them to it. They are forming opinions and debating them between them. Let them and only intervene if their behaviour declines into actual fighting.

If it becomes too loud, or they're taking over the room and no-one else has a chance to speak, or if you've just had enough of it, tell them to take it elsewhere.

To me this sort of spirited debate where both lads have strong feelings is brilliant. Who wants kids who don’t care about this stuff! I’d be joining in. But asking why they feel something, how they think that works rather than expressing my own opinions. Though I’m really political and doubt my kids wouldn’t know my thoughts anyway…. But - I don’t care if my kids think the same as me, I just care that they THINK,

We are a family who debate. It sounds normal.

This 100%.

It's great they can discuss their opinions and practice their arguments in the security of their own home and family.

I mean, I'd like to have hoped it would have been happening before they got to 16 and 18, but better late than never.

We have a “rule” of no politics or religion chats in our home, they get far too heated and just spoils the overall feeling .

I wouldn’t be censoring any of it, they’re old enough now so let them have at it, it’s good for their development and interesting for you as a parent to see how their characters unfold.

It sounds very healthy to me - you've brought them up to feel confident in their opinions and they're happy to spar with each other.

Perfectly fine, though, for you to say that you don't want to hear it over Christmas dinner!

Are you in my house... we have 3.. one who sides with every oppressed and socialist opinion there is... believes that no one should have any wealth and no one should have any environmental impact conveniently ignoring what most people do to earn money and that we can not live without an impact. One is a capitalist at heart, actually sees things from many different perspectives including that they can understand why middle America voted for trump and one who prides themself on their debating skills and would argue with the wall that up was down. I remember asking them to come to a compromise about what time we should leave for school... one who would happily walk into school late every day, one who needed to have 20 minutes at school before class to prepare, mentally and physically and one who just wanted a calm peaceful start to the day... each could argue their own position but had zero empathy for the others point of view, instead of an invitation to come to a consensus on what time we should leave, they used it as an opportunity to try to beat each other into submission. I dropped them home, drive down the road and cried at what a failure I was to have raised such self absorbed humans.

DS and DD are like this. Debate is permitted until insults start and then it is shut down.

I just ignore them. If it gets too much I just say “Uf you’re going to continue discussing please go upstairs I’m sick of hearing it now. Thanks” and they go!