Pronouns and Identity

[Bottlesofrumonthewall]

I am part a group - It has nothing to do with trans people however recently a trans member joined. Since then there has been a lot of focus on pronouns and specific trans related terminology and we have been asked to sign an official, legally binding agreement to be respectful to everyone including views we do not agree with. This was included among other things we had to agree to - but I do have to say that we have never been asked to sign anything like this before.
I want to be clear that I do believe trans people exist and that it is possible for someone to feel more like a woman even if they are a man or vice versa. I have met a few trans people and I loved them and their personalities - not romantically. I fully respect trans people.
At the same time I have a number of womens health conditions and my identity as a woman is very important to me. I actually felt offended when this new member asked what my pronouns were. I felt they were implying I might not feel that I’m a woman? I also believe that if someone is trans, they should be shared by the persons own free will and they shouldn’t have to be asked? Since their arrival they have also wanted everyone to tell them about their pronouns which feels very private to me.
We are being pressured to add pronouns to our emails and we have upcoming meetings about trans people. This is the only trans person in the entire group. We have been a small team and have known each other well for years . Has anyone else experienced something similar? How have you managed maintaining your boundaries while still being considerate of others?

It’s subjective on whether it’s rude or not though isn’t it? Because I wouldn’t find it rude, and neither would almost everyone I know

God, these people. We are supposed to change our whole lives and interractions for them 🙄

we have been asked to sign an official, legally binding agreement to be respectful to everyone including views we do not agree with.

This bullshit, and has no standing in law.

Whereas a lot of people would. Including some trans people who believe they pass so believe their preferred pronouns should be obvious. Absolutely no need to put someone on the spot with a direct question when a 'feel free to share your pronouns if you like' would suffice. Saying nothing and allowing people to take the initiative to share or not share for themselves is better still.

They'd be devastated if they got no attention and were just mistaken for the sex they claim to think they are

I agree it’s rude to check. Pronouns are assigned by others and if preferred pronouns differ from assigned ones, then it is a personal decision as to when/where/who to share them.

The first time I was invited to ‘share my pronouns’ was on a Zoom meeting for people working in particular cultural field. Zoom host was a he/him Woke Bro, who invited participants to say who they were, which organisation they were with and to share pronouns; participants were about 30 women in their 40s and 50s, and we all happily ignored the pronoun nonsense.

I don’t need to share pronouns, it’s either a political statement or an obfuscation.

Then don’t share your pronouns, hope this helps!

Then don't assume that everyone feels the same as you, hope this helps!

Sounds like it is no longer the group for you, or for anyone else who is not a gullible idiot.

I respect queer pronouns to the same degree I respect the dirt under my shoe.

I wonder how many people who think it was fine the OPs pronouns were 'checked' would go up to a TW in a wig, make up and dress who introduced themselves as Natasha, and say 'can I just check your pronouns?'

I already said it was subjective :)

Bottom line.

And I would make a point on the way out that I felt that the pressure to use pronouns was not respecting my views and that I felt pushed out by the bias to force us to share.

It's offensive and not ok.

Demanding everyone else does pronouns is not neutral and it ruins everything because everything becomes about appeasing.

Leave. Don’t pander to this nonsense. Start a new group.

I am willing to use the pronoun 'it' if a person doesn't want to be called 'he' or 'she' but there is no way I would call one person 'they' because THEY is the third person PLURAL, PLURAL.
I don't give a toss if I'm de-railing.

None of his/her business - it's not up to him/her to do that. If someone wishes to volunteer their pronouns of their own volition then they can crack on - but asking someone else to state their pronouns is completely inappropriate for a variety of reasons, as I'm sure you're well aware.

No, that doesn’t really help.

I shouldn’t have to be asked to ‘share pronouns’ because:

(a) It’s obvious I’m female, and if somebody accidentally called me a he or a him I’d just correct and move on (years of experience of this)

(b) It’s an idealogical / political based request

(c) It’s completely unrelated to anything to do with my job

(d) You can use my name when talking to me, I don’t give a rat's ass what pronouns you use when I’m not there

Does that clarify things for you?

Here’s the thing, I literally couldn’t give a fuck. I support trans’ people’s right to exist and live in peace, and you don’t. You’re not going to change my mind, I’m not going to change your mind. So you don’t need to clarify anything for me.

I suppose trans rights too and have a trans child but pressure to share pronouns is not ok for several reasons and if you don’t know why, then educate yourself.

Ive already said it’s fine not to share your pronouns further up in the thread!

It obviously did need clarified for you, because you seemed to be unclear as to why asking for someone's pronouns is unnecessary, inappropriate and absolutely no-one else's business. Hopefully you never do it.

Not one person has mentioned anything about trans people's rights to exist and live in peace. This is a discussion about whether its OK to 'check' someone's pronouns. How did that end up being an accusation PP doesn't think trans people should exist?

Of course trans people exist and they have every right to live in peace. I’ve never said otherwise.

But here’s the thing - nobody should be told to provide their pronouns. It’s not a neutral request.

HTH

The individual is a diva selfabsorbed dramalama who as one individual has managed to bring a very political ideology to the center of the group where it has no real relevance to why you all are in the group.

This one individual has organised a change of policy and is pushing a political agenda and managed to organise (with the help i am sure of useful idiots) a while meeting just about them being a "special" person.

If you want to stay you need to communicate with the older members that trans has nothing to do with the aims and objectives of your group and should be managed on the basis of any other non-relevant personal quirk as in Dont ask Dont tell.

Schizophrenics exist but I don't think we should agree that they're Napoleon on their say so.

It's a Trojan horse, nothing to do with being kind, or polite, but a massive fuck you flag of entitlement planted squarely on the front lawn to bully everyone into compliance. You either leave the group for pastures new or fight what will be a long haul battle against the sparkling rainbow axis of evil.