Surprised by not being able to get ambulance

[FrenchFancie]

This is in no way to have a dig at the ambulance service or at the hospitals (but maybe slightly at the junior doctors strike) but I have been really surprised recently when, for the first time in aaages, I have had to call 999 twice, and on both occasions wasn’t able to get an ambulance.

firstly my daughter was having an asthma attack, and not responding to medication. After 10 reliever puffs we called, and were told it would be a 1-2 hour wait. So we stuffed her in the back of the car and drove like idiots to the local hospital instead, where she was seen straight away. But it was a scary midnight drive. Her asthma plan states to ring 999 after 10 puffs and the ambulance should attend within 10 minutes.

second was through work where a child was having an epileptic seizure and again, we were told it was an unknown wait time, possibly 1-2 hours.

both of these things I felt really scared about, wanting urgent professional help and support, but it wasn’t available. I know I’m not going to get an ambulance for an adult with broken ankle, but kids with quick onset, possibly life threatening conditions, I was shocked there was nothing available.

is this the same now everywhere? It’s been years since I had to call 999 (like 10 years) and got a quick response last time (daughter fell off changing table, was in London and overreacted to her banging her head but the crew were lovely).

I don’t blame the ambulance service or 999 operators - in fact on both occasions the operator sounded stressed and upset they couldn’t get me help.

what, if anything, can be done about this situation?

What has changed? Easy answer is 14 years of “austerity” and public service cuts and general running down of the health service. I have worked in nhs for 40 years and can’t believe how bad it is. Don’t blame the doctors - they just want fair remuneration and have absolutely nothing to do with ambulances. The nhs is in a mess as we need to spend a huge amount of money providing proper care in the community for our increasingly older population. But we also need to make health care an appealing career and that does mean we need to stop devaluing health care professionals. We also need to stop the politicians and media from blaming the public for attending an and e with minor injuries when they have no other choice. Basically the blame for the outrageous times we have to wait for ambulances and all the other problem lies with government and also with ourselves for not valuing the nhs and the nurse/ doctors/ paramedics enough. Health care is not a vocation as many people think it is

They need to get rid of a few layers of management. One of my neighbours is a hospital porter and he tells me tales of impenetrable layers of burocracy, even changing a light bulb turns into a ruddy circus. He cant wait to retire 😆

I would really like to understand this. 'Emotionally' it feels like you're right about Covid - but how can that be? Once the stress factor on a given system is removed (ie Covid ends) why do things not return to where they were before?

We live less than ten minutes from a large hospital so would always drive to a and e unless the person couldn't be moved. My NDN is 86 has lung cancer but also dementia she calls an ambulance several times a week and they always come and usually quite quickly. Unfortunately it's usually because get breathing isn't great then she forgets she has inhalers and then panics her breathing gets worse. They come give her a blast of oxygen calm her down and it's fine. If I'm home and she calls me I'll go round and give her her inhaler. They are great with her but I do think of adult social care were doing their job the pressure on ambulance service would be reduced. She shouldn't still be at home alone. Carers go in twice a day but ivy for half an hour. We do what we can but both work full time and have a cold.

If it could have taken 2 hours to drive why did you think the ambulance would make it quicker. While theres no readily available taxis, if it were me I would have phoned for a taxi, grabbed all the kids and taken that, you would have got there quicker no doubt

If someone is movable and the person with them is movable, they really need to go in a car

I agree with a lot of these points but there are a good few more:

• incompetence in procurement
• often poor organisation
• unwillingness to modernise or learn from other health providers let alone other sectors
• lack of cooperation between fiefdoms

Add this to the wrong rewards for the wrong behaviour - staff trying to go above and beyond to help patients are no better rewarded than the mediocre and downright poor.

I posted about a similar situation in 2019, before covid impact:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/3561646-Help-4-hours-waiting-for-ambulance?reply=86381744#

The consequence of developing hypothermia was an extended stay in hospital before they could even operate on the hip. The surgeon was quite open about the fact that she was saved by being in unusually good health and fitness for her age and able to fight the hypothermia and consequences.

Another family member experienced similar in 2011, after 13 years of Labour boosting spending, much of which was wasted by unaccountable fiefdoms creating ever more layers and vanity projects.

The biggest handicap facing the NHS and any attempts to improve it is the religious status. Patients facing truly shocking conditions and treatment and navigating processes 50 years out of date are told to be “grateful”. How can a service or business improve when it doesn’t have to and staff doing an outstanding job have no better opportunities/reward than the mediocre time servers.

I quite agree with you. Some people need to take some more responsibility.
I am LC with my mother in her 90s as is 1 of my siblings. She called 999 because she could not get out of her chair. This had been a very long time coming. She was slowly getting worse. When the ambulance crew arrived, they did not take her in to hospital, as she wanted, but told her she needed more carers and probably would be better going in to a home. This saved them spending time taking her away and bed blocking in hospital. She is now in a home.

There definitely needs to be a different way of managing people experiencing a MH crisis or if they're drunk or on drugs, ambulances are often called for them and then they'll have to sit in A+E waiting forever as theres no MH team readily available

My God that sounds terible.

Reminds me of when I came across a road traffic accident victim with amputated fingers. I called 999, they said they'd get the victim an ambulance even though I said I could drive them to A&E in 30 mins if that would help. 3 hours later and many calls back to them to offer to take him and finally an ambulance appeared.

Once they have someone registered on their system they refuse to allow anyone else to convey them.

@C8H10N4O2 not too many years ago an elderly person with a broken hip was a death sentence. I remember going to visit an old man in hospital about 30 years ago, he wiuld have been late 70s. As far as I remember they just put him in a hospital bed with pain relief, pneumonia set in and he was dead inside a week .
I remember my mum mentioning one or 2 elderly people from her church who had fallen and broken hips, they died within a week or 2, it seemed they just made them comfortable and off they went

Can I just say on this I can’t believe this was the advice given RE the aspirin and stroke (not saying I don’t believe you but that this was the information giving by the call handler).

Just to say for anyone who read that and may be unsure. Please please do not give aspirin to someone with stroke symptoms. 15% of stroke are haemorrhagic strokes not ischemic (clots) and aspirin is going to make a bad situation worse.

Same happened to my nephew - very serious fracture in a footie game . Left laying the mud and rain for hours and hours before an ambulance could come. It definitely didn’t help his recovery, and I’m not blaming the Ambulance service or operators. They did their best.

This used to be a big part of the problem 20 years ago, but it isn't really now. Paramedics and nurses in control filter these calls very effectively, they also review the highest priority calls whilst a ambulance is enroute, downgrading it if appropriate (this is obviously more effective in more rural areas where there is more time for them to have a chat). People making unnecessary calls to the ambulance service will be advised to make their own way or will wait for hours if not days.
Obviously there are exceptions where people work the system, or calls are inappropriately escalated/ exaggerated by a HCP/ 111 which can't then be downgraded very easily, if at all my another HCP. But in reality the clinical desk staff filter out vast numbers of calls.

I put to you that this was an absolute waste of the ambulance services time.

It should never have happened.

Called ambulance for neighbour who was choking but still able to breathe, just, back in August. We got a fast response team within 5 min who were able to get the item out with Heimlich ( we tried but couldn't shift it).

My husband called an ambulance when I had a severe gallbladder attack. They told him people had been waiting for 12+ hours already and there was nothing they could do. He eventually managed to get me there and my pulse was 36, so thankfully was admitted immediately. While in resus, the amount of people who were drunk, substance-abusers, having health crises etc taking up the ambulances was quite staggering. The ambulance stacking was really bad too, paramedics stuck for hours.

I know an elderly man who broke his hip in a fall. His son managed to drive from Southampton to Leicester and take him to the hospital before the ambulance got there. When they got to the hospital it was over nine hours before they were seen. They said the hospital was very obviously being used as a GP service for people who didn't have a GP.

I know a woman who had what turned out to be a heart attack. The ambulance arrived quickly and she was diagnosed and given treatment quickly but she had to spend 28 hours sitting on a chair in the A&E waiting room while they tried to find her a bed. (And she was lucky to get a chair. Most people were having to stand or sit on the floor.) 28 hours without being able to sleep or even lie down when you have just had a heart attack is not good for your health.

Having said that, I also know someone who had sepsis and the ambulance arrived quickly and the treatment was great. The medical negligence that led to him developing sepsis was, however, another matter.

All this was in 2025.

When we had a house fire we had 3 engines arrive in ten minutes I think it’s the only emergency service not on their knees

I wonder if unlike everything else the number of fires has gradually fallen. Fewer smokers, fewer incandescent lightbulbs, fewer chip pan fires, more smoke alarms….?

I dont think 111 helps either. They have to cover themselves so will advise an ambulance even if the patient knows they don't need one. I rang them to see about an out of hours doctor because I didn't feel I needed a&e. In the end I had to go to a&e and they wanted me to get an ambulance. In the end I convinced them my DH could take me. It would have been such a waste of time and resources.

I was present when an ambulance was called for an elderly lady who had fallen, hit her head and like most head injuries it was bleeding badly. There were other injuries too. Dont think she was concussed but she did need someone with sufficient knowledge to check her over and see if her various wounds needed stitching. Ambulance was less than 2 hours and I was surprised it arrived so quickly. She didnt want to go to hospital but I had to leave so didnt find out if they took her in.

This 100%

In France, the fire service take you to hospital. Perhaps we could get some improvement in the service by doubling up here.

The 'Right care, right person' model being rolled out by police forces will be having an impact.

For a long time police had been the 'go to' for mental health emergencies - which are often as serious if not more than physical health problems (there are many more deaths through suicide & self harm than asthma for example) and quite rightly people with a mental health emergency can expect a health care professional rather than police. Even when police are needed to attend an ambulance presence & transport in an ambulance rather than police vehicle are needed

They have not increased the ambulance service to accommodate this so this has increased the pressure on the service.

It's important to mention that the NHS should have been doing more for mental health in the first place & it's absolutely the right thing for this to move away from police.

Ambulances are subject too long delays. They are triaged.
Absolutely NOTHING to do with the junior Drs strike.