The working world has become ridiculous

[Rothschild]

Recently a manager at my company attended an online meeting in tears because of a minor issue regarding her child's school. She excused herself from the meeting and took a mental health day.

I can barely get hold of anyone at 3pm in my (large) organisation because everyone is doing school pick up. I don't believe they're getting much work done once they've picked up because they become hard to contact, don't respond to messages and won't attend meetings, despite it being their normal working hours.

It's ridiculous. When our children were small we paid for wrap around childcare or for someone to collect. We were available to work between 3 and 4pm and afterwards.

I'm not talking about anyone who has negotiated flexibility or finishes at 3pm, I'm talking about others who are, frankly, taking the piss.

And if I had taken a mental health day every time I'd had some difficulty in my life I'd have hardly worked.

There are two issues here: 1) taking a mental health day and 2) not being able to contact people after 3pm.

Taking them one at a time, this school thing may have just been the straw that broke the camel's back. Perceived overreaction to seemingly minor incidents usually indicates underlying stressors that you may or may not know about.

Not being able to contact people after 3pm is an issue. Some parents can work with their children at home, I categorically can't unless they join me on my Teams meetings. Which is cute occasionally, but not actually achievable for 1 minute at a time, or professional. You should flag to your line manager that this is impacting your productivity, as it may inform decisions for future flexible working requests. Maybe it could be an agenda item for a team meeting.

Lovely.

See you all back here in 45 mins as I assume we’re all off on the school run 🤣👋

I get it. We are in 3 days a week or supposedly, but any excuse will mean people don't come in. A Dr appointment at 9am...suddenly its not worth coming in for the rest of the day, so they work from home. I'm pretty sure most people I work with actively book something on office days, so they don't have to come in. I hate working from home so I am often one of the only people in. If I have an mot or boiler service etc., I make sure its a day I work from home. Most people I know don't even bother getting wrap on the days we are in the office, let alone when we aren't. A couple of people will generally leave at 2ish. What they actually do after pick up I dont know. I'm often online late and dont see them. It is a joke but equally I don't really have the energy to get too het up about it. If managers don't bother to demonstrate the culture they wish to see (my line manager is one of the perpetrators of some of the above) then they can't expect it from the rest of the team. Those with work ethic just have to suck it up and equally if these people aren't being pulled up for not doing their job, clearly they are doing enough to keep the powers that be happy.

It seemed to have got to the stage where nobody can possibly challenge any claim of adverse mental health. Too many people seem to think that normal human states, like feeling anxious, sad or worried, count as ‘poor mental health’ and entitle them to skive/and/or claim benefits.

IMO a good many people just need to be told to get a grip.

I don’t think we should be challenging people’s mental health, unless you’ve transported yourself into their brain somehow.

But...arent you the manager that didnt deal with it by giving someone half a week off?

I work full time, and before Covid and wfh, I would regularly burn out and become ill (related to a disability). I now wfh for a portion of week and I haven’t been off sick for a long time. so I did manage 5 days in office, but the cost was built up until I couldn’t do it anymore.

Add into this I am the parent of an autistic child. They were out of school for 18 months while we fought a tribunal to get her a specialist provision. My employer was brilliant and allowed me to wfh more and come to office when I couldn’t (I always prioritised team meetings, project things that needed in person). I’m a lone parent so this was not an easy time (as well as trying to manage my dc MH). She was 10-12 in this time so able to occupy herself without me.

That phase is now over and what they have is a total employee who regularly works beyond set hours and a woman remains in work. 75% of mothers of SEND children have to give up work.

I still work flexibly, I take my lunch late two days a week for school pick up (specialist provision, so no wrap around care and the school is 9miles away and no transport.

I hate actual shirkers at work. But I hate reading about so many people writing off mothers and disabled people. The modern workplace is a better place for including everyone, and adjustments might mean treating people differently.

I can see why people are avoiding having meetings with you, and I don't think it's about their kids or pets.

A colleague once said to me ‘you’re totally replaceable at work, but you are never replaceable at home’. I try to remember that when I’m being pulled in different directions!

There's a widespread misunderstanding of what productivity is actually referring to. It's not about individual employees not working hard enough. Low productivity is usually a failure of investment, not a sign of lazy employees. You can work to exhaustion digging a foundation with a shovel, but you will never match the output of an excavator. The issue is that too many UK businesses are refusing to buy the excavator.

No-one has school age children at my work but I hardly ever get any emails on a Friday and no-one is ever physically in the office on a Friday. I think it's brilliant compared with how things were ten years ago.

I've had super-demanding jobs where you have to be in the office all the time and this is so much more realistic and healthy. Working in a professional job and juggling all the demands of young children made me unwell, physically and mentally. In my 30s I put loads of weight on comfort eating with stress, had depression, endometriosis, PCOS, several cancer scares and got every cough, cold, and stomach bug under the sun. Since I changed my job in my early 40s to one where my colleagues work to live and are not workaholics I've been really well. Hardly a day off sick, I've lost weight, no endometriosis symptoms, mental health so much better also.

I’d say this is your employers’ fault- I’ve never ever worked in a role where someone has been doing childcare at the same time as working. I’ve once or twice had a client who has brought their child to a meeting due to an emergency, but we’ve just carried on as if the child isn’t present and it’s had no impact on what we are dealing with. I don’t understand why your employer would allow people to have children at home and then continue working?! Or are they doing it ‘secretly?’ As is your employer doesn’t know the kids are there???

YANBU. I don't work in an office or at a 'proper' job (freelance), but a friend of mine who does recently told me that she was trying to organise a meeting, in normal work hours, with a colleague who has a small child and works from home. Every suggestion of a time and date was met with a martyred expression, sighing and 'I suppose I could put him in front of the telly for an hour and attend...'.
I cannot believe that this woman was on a day-to-day basis applying herself properly to her job.

That is fine as long as those without children are treated equally. After all, having children is chosen in today’s world, thankfully. It is not imposed on anyone. However, an elderly parent who needs care is not chosen and I know of people without children who have been denied time off when their parent needs care - those with children are given time off, without question. This is blatant discrimination

I think the problem is that if one sector of the workforce is chilling, it means another have to pick up the slack. They get annoyed and then leave.

You’d be surprised how many snowflakes are like this and it definitely isn’t a major mental health issue for all of them. For some they’re just looking for an excuse to not work.

And those without children shouldn’t be carrying the load and working longer hours without being financially well compensated for it.

See also Christmas leave. Those with small children are prioritised over those with elderly parents. It isn't right (I think first come first served is perfectly fair but the disorganised of MN don't like that idea).

Edit: if someone has absolutely no childcare, then they can't work and someone else will have to. But that could potentially apply to an elderly or disabled relative too - their paid-for care not being available on say Boxing Day.

Agree entirely. This is why we see jobs go offshore or be automated out with AI. People are so myopic on the subject of WFH.

The not being in the office on a Friday really annoys me as well. I have no issue with remote working at all, given I do it myself.

But it shouldn't be taboo to be able to have meetings, including face to face meetings on a Friday!

If someone asked me to go to a face to face meeting on a Friday I would go. In fact next Friday I might be doing just that.

Agreed.

OP, just come and get a job in the Square Mile, you'd love it. It's 12 hour days wall to wall, nobody knows their kids, in fact most people pretend they don't have any, all they talk about is work and absolutely any transgression (late for meetings, picking up kids, not doing the "extra mile" aka more hours, listening to headphones at desk, taking lunch breaks, taking any time off for any reason) will land people on the bottom 10% of performers and they'll be be let go in the next round of cuts. It's great. Only there are almost no senior women apart from me, because most women probably think "fuck that for a game of soldiers, I want life not money". Thing is, we are all paid astronomically well so i think a lot of the points people are making on this thread are quite logical. No money = no shits given, a fortune = sure boss!

On a serious note I do sympathise with you, if you're committed to your work and you care about it then it's really disappointing when you can't actually progress any of it with other people.

My company has banned meetings on a Friday unless they are critical. its on the back of the complaints of so many meetings and no one has time for training other work etc regaulr emails about meeting free Friday etc is sent around. productivity is not measured on amount of meetings you have.

There is a difference between being lazy wherever you are working, and not wanting to come into the office. I can get why some people are very reluctant, and I think some is not about work. Cost of travel, time it takes, also remember that a lot of people have a car licence who are unfit to do so or should have had it withdrawn a long time ago.