The working world has become ridiculous

[Rothschild]

Recently a manager at my company attended an online meeting in tears because of a minor issue regarding her child's school. She excused herself from the meeting and took a mental health day.

I can barely get hold of anyone at 3pm in my (large) organisation because everyone is doing school pick up. I don't believe they're getting much work done once they've picked up because they become hard to contact, don't respond to messages and won't attend meetings, despite it being their normal working hours.

It's ridiculous. When our children were small we paid for wrap around childcare or for someone to collect. We were available to work between 3 and 4pm and afterwards.

I'm not talking about anyone who has negotiated flexibility or finishes at 3pm, I'm talking about others who are, frankly, taking the piss.

And if I had taken a mental health day every time I'd had some difficulty in my life I'd have hardly worked.

That's a valid choice.

Calling someone ‘sweetheart’ just feeds into the misogyny of patriarchy.

Well I'm very glad that there are now lots of organisations with flexible working policies based on goodwill and trust, so that I don't ever have to work again for a company with a culture like yours.

You do you, but please don't bring the rest of us down.

Flexible working is good for women and for equality.

So does pitting women with children against those without and removing flexible working for people with caring responsibilities. I'd say on the balance of harm that one feels much more structural.

This is what DLA and PIP should be for. To pay for this support to stay IN work. The onus should be on the employee to get support if they need it in their job beyond what is a reasonable adjustment.

A manager spending and entire day a week dealing with one employee and that eating into their own work and the ability to provide to support to all of the staff they’re in charge of is beyond a reasonable adjustment Surely?

What are you talking about? Owners of companies can't run around different departments doing the work of parents who are skiving? I thankfully don't have any have any parents that take the piss in my team but I've been there where I've had to pick up slack and irate clients due to utter people's persistent absence. Owners of companies don't swoop in and resolve it, not unless they threaten to dismiss for poor attendance.

I don't know if I understand your comment, as a woman who has had to fight for my whole career, I know only too well how much easier men have it! I've been victim of the nepotism too when men look after each other instead of giving women a chance. Women taking the mick, make it harder for other women in a world that's already hard for women!

I have a friend who has outsourced much of his staff's WFH work to the Philippines because it's cheaper and he gets much better productivity.

Increases in staff costs make the cost of automation much more viable. There's at least one coffee chain working on robot baristas.

You get what you wish for.

If your organisation is so large OP, it sounds like you have a problem of hiring a large amount of employees who may be around middle-aged only, as they are always doing school pick up after 3pm according to your post.

Do you not hire workers that are outside of the school-children bracket? Maybe branching out in that avenue will ensure you have a good spread of workers of varying ages. I work in a large organisation and there is a variety of ages so we don’t have this problem. How interesting it is hugely problematic in yours.

A lot of the issue is poor management. Just because someone is a 'manager', doesn't actually mean they can manage their way out of a wet paper bag! Some don't have the right skills or personality to be in the role. Yes, you can teach managerial skills to a degree, but there still needs to be the fundamentals there to start with. I think the further up the chain goes, the worse it can get. People with no idea of what's happening at a lower level. There's also the culture of not wanting to 'upset' anyone. Companies have to tip-toe around, they can't act in the best interests of the business because it might 'upset' an employee that they now need to come into the office. They're frightened of doing anything that might be perceived in the wrong light. WFH and looking after young children after school doesn't go together.

I'm aware

Op wouldn't like Germany though - they have very very strict labour laws, they can not work after doing a certain amount of hours that day, overtime is a big no no - Hr have to submit regularly to their labour department how many hours their staff have done and the company can be fined. If the person has to finish at 3 then they have to finish at 3, the OP may wait till next day

Then don’t do it.

That’s your perception. I would counter argue your victimhood with stop feeding into the stereotype and organise childcare for your children. Women struggled to get a foothold in the workplace because we were considered a risky prospect due to childcare and home duties and now we are confirming that by being flakey due to child raising and the need to do household chores. We can’t have it both ways. You will end up being yanked back
Into the workplace or your job will be outsourced.

For every one of you being super important within a niche, flexible work place they’ll be another three just taking the piss and being easily replaceable.

I'm not convinced about German efficiency. I stayed just outside Cologne (because accomodation in Cologne is very expensive) recently. A 30 min train ride to the city. The trains were cheap but every single one I used in a 5 day break was running late.

As with every where there are good and bad, my colleagues are very nice though, but often have to decline late meetings as they go over their hours and HR wont allow it due to laws
On other hand we have just lost one lovely girl who i have worked with the past 6 years who was covering maternity leave. The women is coming back after 9 years of maternity, you are entitled to take up to three years maternity in Germany and your position must stay open, the women in question has had three children and took all her maternity together, its like dealing with a new person

It sounds like you are saying that the unions have a stranglehold on Germany. I have no idea how their economy is doing as to whether that’s working well for them.

Lol it's not my "perception" , it's the reality.

And also - my "victimhood"? Can't remember suggesting I was a victim, but thanks for the ad hominem attack - I hope it made you feel extra big and clever.

While all working parents rely on some childcare, being a parent is not something that can or should be outsourced.

It's better for women, it's better for children, it's better for society, to have a flexible work culture, which recognises and accommodates the needs of people with all manner of life experiences, including those with caring responsibilities.

Your values are in all the wrong places.

There are always those in work who take the piss and those who don't. When everyone was in offices they would go for longer breaks, be constantly chatting etc rather then actually doing any work!

Although your presumption of pick up is pretty out dated. A lot of areas and schools have got rid of after school clubs or there are huge waiting lists. My DC go to after school 3 days a week as that's all we could get! There is a 2 year waiting list for the 1 after school club for the whole town (4 primary schools). There are 3 child minders also have similar waiting lists.

We split pick up the rest of the time and set them up with a snack and crafts then work for another hour or so (I start work at 7.30am).

I get more work done from home then I do the office, regularly have a very reduced lunch break and switch my computer on a Sunday evening to triage for the working week.

I would say I don't tend to organise meetings past 3. But not because colleagues are unavailable but because I know I will have a way more productive meeting in the morning or shortly after lunch.

Google tells me the German economy is in about as much shit as we are. Potentially even worse as they are holding up the European Union alongside France.

I need to look up ad hominem attack. That sounds like something outside of my working class education 🙈

I'd say the majority of the issue. I feel one of the fortunate ones to have a good manager.

There are always those in work who take the piss and those who don't. When everyone was in offices they would go for longer breaks, be constantly chatting etc rather then actually doing any work

and we all knew who they were and we still do.

Oh and I have to shoot off to work soon. I’m one of those low paid twats who have to still go there, so you’ll have to excuse my absence

And I pay for wrap around on my full days and work part time around school pick up times. Plus I pay national insurance and tax and pension contributions and don’t claim any UC, so I really am quite the scum bag around here.