The working world has become ridiculous

[Rothschild]

Recently a manager at my company attended an online meeting in tears because of a minor issue regarding her child's school. She excused herself from the meeting and took a mental health day.

I can barely get hold of anyone at 3pm in my (large) organisation because everyone is doing school pick up. I don't believe they're getting much work done once they've picked up because they become hard to contact, don't respond to messages and won't attend meetings, despite it being their normal working hours.

It's ridiculous. When our children were small we paid for wrap around childcare or for someone to collect. We were available to work between 3 and 4pm and afterwards.

I'm not talking about anyone who has negotiated flexibility or finishes at 3pm, I'm talking about others who are, frankly, taking the piss.

And if I had taken a mental health day every time I'd had some difficulty in my life I'd have hardly worked.

Training??? Ooh that costs money but you'll get the hang of it.
Making mistakes as we go along, what a great look.

It absolutely is but I see people who are on good salaries eg 50k upwards who vanish offline if there are some issues eg WiFi or network or an application not working. Then they don't want to come in to fix it if it can't be done remotely. Today is FO Friday in their world.

@puppymaddness I couldn't agree more it is shocking and the things that some people seem proud of.

Wrap around care is costly for employees and they expect a high salary in return.

You talk like your employer asked you to have kids and now owes you for it! It's for you to plan having kids, the care costs, the suitability of having kids Vs your job! Nobody owes you a higher salary than anyone else just because you bred! This attitude of the working world owing you high salary and lower working hours because of a choice you made is why women of child bearing are or those with kids are held back when it comes to job opportunities.

And of course no-one else matters except for parents. As always those who don't have children or those who manage their children without it affecting their work are the ones picking up the slack

I do and whilst it may be isolated, I can imagine it happening.

HR and the fear of employment tribunals I think contribute to this. It is not a failure if someone takes you to an employment tribunal, it only is if you lose.

Same goes for business owners. They created a business that they cannot run themselves to feed and nurture their families. They are totally reliant on someone else doing the work so they get paid. If nobody works for them, they have no business left. That's why they have to pay people enough for them to look after their own priorities. They need them to work for them.

Only because you want to. Stop being bothered about productivity of a company that doesn't even give you a tenner bonus at Xmas.

This drives me mad having raised three children mostly on my own with no family help and paying fortunes for childcare as well as missing out on that time with my children which obviously was my choice but also I needed to work for my mental health and for the extra money that it brought in.

Even the head of our department does the school run and then not a lot more! So she allows anyone who needs to do that the same. I am part of the senior leadership team and help recruit one of my peers who clearly said in the interview that she can work very flexibly because her mum does all her wraparound care and oh what a shocker that a couple of months later she blocks out 2:30 till four every single day is unavailable And then barely comes back online.

It drives me crazy

Agree with this absolutely 😊

"I am part of the senior leadership team and help recruit one of my peers who clearly said in the interview that she can work very flexibly because her mum does all her wraparound care and oh what a shocker that a couple of months later she blocks out 2:30 till four every single day is unavailable And then barely comes back online."

People's circumstances change and I'm querying why childcare came up in an interview. Wonder if a man would have felt the need to express that the way this colleague did.

@Lavender14 it was a general question about whether they were able to work flexibly to cover the service and they enthusiastically offered this information. We ask every single person who applies no matter what their gender however what information they offer is entirely up to them.

The circumstances haven’t changed. This person has freely since offered the information that other people do it so why shouldn’t they? Yes I get that but when you literally can only get hold of two people after 3pm out of the team of 11 it’s really frustrating.

It doesn't mean you get to be self entitled and demand higher salaries and less working hours than colleagues that don't have kids! Because that's creating a toxic atmosphere and it's discrimination! Don't forget that birth rates have dropped a lot and far more people are staying child free by choice! They can easily employ lots of non-parents over parents so be careful what you wish for!

It isn't my business what someone else demands. That colleague should make their own demands. I can't accept poorer working conditions because a colleague isn't advocating for themselves.

Lets say I dont do a bit of work because ive gone to get my kids. Childfree colleague is then asked by someone senior to do my work meaning they have ti stay later. They can just say no. The manager getting hundred of thousands or the owner getting millions can do it if it really needs doing right now. That's what they get all that money for.

I think this is a small way to look at it though - in a previous workplace we had the same issue that staff without kids were frustrated that staff with kids used the flexible working policy. Until it was pointed out that they too could make use of that policy. So they did, and were much happier about their own working balance as a result. I think we should be encouraging our team to have a healthy balance irregardless of whether they are parents or not. Just because some staff choose to avail of a company benefit and others don't doesn't make those staff at fault. There are plenty of ways to set flexi working up so it's balanced and spread across a team.

I’d make sure to arrange all meetings that she has to attend at 3.30 pm.

Or just keep out of other people’s business

Some people really get a lot of validation from being the bestest soldier in the troop for a measles salary and poor working conditions. They think it speaks of their character because they stick it out and hurt themselves for someone else's profits. It's like they are brainwashed.

Yes, I’m afraid this is right. It’s very sad.

Why?

Also true, of course.

These are probably the ones moaning that the rich should be taxed - is that the rich that commute an hour or more both ways to the office, work 8-9 hour days and get over 100, 000 a year.

ud completely forgotten how much of my life I was self employed and that probably does explain my work ethic now. I routinely did 12 hour days to be able to pay my rent.

Yes circumstances change and people have kids but companies are allowed to try and gauge what sort of employee you are likely to be before wasting time and money taking you on. If you and lot of people on here have the mentality of expecting to be paid to sit with your child and not work, there's no point employing you! You are showing yourselves as unreliable, demanding and there's plenty of child free people now who wouldn't cause that problem.

You are being unrealistic to think that childcare wouldn't be asked about! You can't expect to just come and go when you feel like it and dictate when you will and won't work once you start the job! You need to be honest and admit when you can work at the interview! It's not discrimination, it's making sure you won't be a drain on your prospective colleagues.

I think this has always been true. 20 years ago I knew several very well paid men in my very large well known company who would always have a “meeting”in the afternoon that was actually going to the gym or for a run. A director with a season ticket to a football club strangely absent on Wednesday afternoons. No one ever did anything. What is different now, is that women are doing it too, so it’s more obvious.
you also don’t know what hours they are doing in the evening. When I had young children, I had to leave bang on time for nursery pickup, and I got loads of grief for it, but no one ever noticed I frequently worked for several hours after they went to bed.
if it’s impacting you, tell your boss.