School teachers to strike over 'virtual maths teacher'

[noblegiraffe]

Staff at a school in Lancarshire are going on a 6 day strike because the school has hired a teacher in Devon to teach top set maths from Y9-11.

The teacher is beamed into the classroom via video link. The article says "Under the scheme, pupils use technology to interact with the teacher, including touch screens and electronic pens." although I'm not sure what that means. Hopefully it would mean that the teacher would be able to see what each pupil is working on in real time, although that sounds very expensive!

There is then an additional adult hired to be present in the room and presumably manage behaviour (if they could help the kids with the work, they wouldn't need the virtual teacher).

On the one hand, I can see that the alternative for these kids is that they don't have a maths teacher at all.

On the other hand, replacing an actual teacher with a teacher-on-a-screen is not an ideal option. Teachers cannot build up relationships with classes that they cannot see, walk around and interact with like actual human beings. There's a lot of things that teachers do in a class that isn't merely standing at the front and delivering content.

If this happens more widely you could then also see teachers opting to become virtual teachers because then they'd get to work from home, not to have to bother with behaviour management or bus duty or staff meetings, or even a commute. And I suspect they are only using this set-up with top sets because they are more independent and compliant, so bottom sets are still going without good maths teachers, and indeed are more likely to go without because the good teacher has elected to do the work from home option.

I don't think it's a positive move. But then classes not having maths teachers at all is a real problem.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/staff-to-strike-over-schools-use-of-virtual-teacher/

There are role ty of TAs who could teach better than a NQT - they are not used for their strengths at all!!

And that's because they're TAs and not teachers.

This is exactly what we were asked to do when pupils and teachers were made to congregate in stuffy classrooms while the rest of the country was in lockdown (a little different from all being at home). When teachers inevitably got ill and had to isolate, we had to teach the pupils in the room from home via laptop. And when groups of kids were sent home they logged in to see what was happening in the classroom.

It was shit and there was no way to keep on top of everything they produced and check what they knew, and the cover staff in the room might as well have not been there. I often had to sit and watch my class being bollocked as SLT walked in front of the camera, as they were throwing things or whatever.

This school is local to me and barely has any teachers left (this isn't just a maths problem). The idea that the staff who actually work there get all the behaviour problems in the bottom sets doesn't exactly help.

This school is local to me and barely has any teachers left (this isn't just a maths problem).

Interesting, @Weeken I wonder if the virtual teacher is a last straw then.

My DD attended a virtual school fir a while.

(too ill to access in person education).

they have bespoke software not teams. Cameras were compulsory on and students were expected to reply to the teacher. She was doing a levels - maths, further maths and physics. Class size was about eight.

at a level they’re expected to do significant work outside class. Lessons were recorded and the videos were available on their platform later. Attendance was taken each lesson and if a student wasn’t there and parents hadn’t told yhe school the child was ill they’d be rung within 15 mins of the lesson starting.

the lessons I saw were much more like discussion groups or seminars. They were 45 mins long and everyone was expected to contribute and discuss the maths/physics that was being talked about.

Seems to be. A number of years ago (when it was inadequate), the head left suddenly on the first day of the new academic year as it became an academy under Star, and it's currently only about half full based on capacity. Haven't heard anyone who knows it have a good word to say about it.

they have bespoke software not teams. Cameras were compulsory on and students were expected to reply to the teacher. She was doing a levels - maths, further maths and physics. Class size was about eight.

I can see an A level class of 8 with bespoke software and good cameras/tech might work well. There are 32 in my daughter's A level maths class-I can't imagine a remote offer would be anywhere near as good in that situation.

Cheap labour. No sick pay, no requests for hybrid working, no maternity leave required and no pension needed. Can see this happening more.

I'm a university lecturer in a STEM subject so quite maths heavy.
Even if all our students have their camera on (which they never would, I always ask and some ignore me and some claim tech issues) I can't tell who's not grasped a point in a lecture if it's online and live. Much prefer teaching in person.

In labs where they are learning hands on skills (which are usually at least computer aided) they all try and sit as far away from me as possible. I've made sitting where I can see them and sitting in groups compulsory (this started as a technical reason but now it just works so I carry on). It's really important to see if they are keeping up - and that means seeing their faces and their work.

And these are adults so the main "behaviour" issue is not listening/being on social media.

It's a real person teaching, just not in the classroom. I hope they are being paid properly!

32 in an A-level class is insane.

I wonder how the virtual teacher does the marking? I suppose the class could submit work electronically. But how do they then have the little 1-1 conversations with the kids about it?

During covid when we had to teach from the front, not being able to circulate the class and have those individual conversations with the kids was a real pain in the arse.

My friends who pay for online schools absolutely love the ones their children attend, and they also like that these schools are much more affordable than independent ones.

People are often curious about how online schools work, so here’s a snapshot of what they’re like now. They’ve come a long way in recent years, and some of the established ones are genuinely impressive. A good online school works much like a traditional one, just without the buildings. Students follow a full timetable of live lessons taught in real time by qualified teachers, not pre-recorded videos. Classes are smaller, giving more individual attention and fewer distractions. Most use an online portal for homework, quizzes, and assignments, with parents able to check a dashboard showing attendance, grades, and upcoming work. Reputable schools follow the British curriculum, preparing students for IGCSEs and A-levels, and lessons are often recorded so kids can catch up if they’ve been unwell or want to revise. Many offer far more than people expect: pastoral care, form tutors, wellbeing check-ins, assemblies, SEND support, clubs, extracurriculars, social groups, one-to-one tuition, and virtual common rooms to keep students connected. Some even arrange in-person meetups or work with exam centres to make things easier. This setup can be great for families — especially children dealing with anxiety, bullying, sensory overload, chronic illness, or those who thrive in a calmer, smaller setting. Strong students often enjoy working at their own pace without the usual classroom noise, the consistency is a big plus. Parents often notice their children are less stressed, more confident, and more focused. The small class sizes mean more teacher attention, and with everything online, parents naturally feel more involved. Of course, it’s not for everyone — some kids still need the daily social buzz of in-person school.

@ThisTicklishFatball how do they make the kids do the work? That was the biggest issue with online learning during covid. Can they issue sanctions?

@noblegiraffe good communication with the parents to keep them informed regarding attendance, punctuality, behaviour, progress and submission of assignments is the key. Parental support is vital to ensure that all work is completed and students make the best possible progress.

I suspect there is a big difference between families who specifically opt in to an online school, and those who want a traditional face to face school.

I guess the difference is that kids enrolled in online school now are self-selecting and they are paying customers - the parents are actively choosing it and want it to work. During covid parents were mostly not wanting to do it and also assuming it would soon be over so maybe weren't as "on it" as they might have been as if it was "this is it for the rest of your kid's education", especially in non-critical years where they maybe thought the kids would catch up.

They must have been unable to recruit a maths specialist and this is a last resort?

DD2 was in top set for maths at her grammar school and for several weeks had a non specialist covering their maths lessons. It was a waste of everyone's time because these 12 year old girls could, mathematically, run rings round the teacher. Maths is one of those subjects where you simply cannot fudge it.

Sure, but kids are still kids and if they are doing their learning on a device which is also connected to the internet, the temptation to click onto snapchat or TikTok must be strong. Think about all the people who sneak on their phones in work meetings and they're paid to be there!

I don't have a problem with it.
My youngest son was HE aged 13, taught himself and watched TL Math on YouTube and passed his Maths and Advanced Maths this way, said this Maths teacher was miles better than the one at his secondary school.
I was taught by a teacher in a classroom and failed my maths exam.
The whole world including education is constantly changing and evolving, l don't understand why schools think themselves exempt.
Technology is pushing forward and you will never be able to stop it.

TL maths is certainly an excellent maths teacher but he creates Youtube videos which are great, but limited. They can't mark a student's work, or provide targeted support when a student gets something wrong.

Videos can't deal with SEN, recalcitrant students, or spot safeguarding issues. They can't have a cheerful off-topic conversation to brighten your day.

One would hope that parents would want better for their kids. Human interaction is so important, as we learned during Covid.

Remote learning has been a thing for a long time.
But people forget that those that are doing remote learning are brought up in a different way in their expectations towards education.
Mainly that they are responsible for there behaviour and the results that they get.

It will be interesting to see who gets the blame when/if this fails.

One bright motivated student is very different to a mixed ability class of 30 though.