Fancy cars for disabled people

[LemaxObsessive]

Motability.

I am sick to absolute death of seeing people saying on various threads, that Motability vehicles are “given” to us disabled people “for free”.

PIP is awarded in 2 separate elements.

1. Daily Living (day to day care needs etc)
2. Mobility

Each element is paid at different rates depending on how affected by your disability you are (and yes, medical evidence is required). However, to be eligible for Motability, you need to be getting the highest rate of the Mobility element. This is currently £77.05 per week (which works out at £308.20 per 4 weeks or £333.88 per month).

When you join Motability you agree for the DWP to give Motability that £77.05 per week instead of it being paid to your bank. If you also receive the Daily Living element of PIP then you will still receive that directly.

You ALSO, in most cases, have to pay an advance payment (AP) for the vehicle. The better the vehicle, the higher the AP. You do not get the AP back.
The £77.05 per week pays for the lease of the car, insurance, roadside assistance, tyres & windshield cover. Disabled people in receipt of the highest rate of the PIP mobility element are already exempt from road tax.

With regards to the ‘fancy’ cars such as BMW, Audi & Mercedes, as you can imagine all of these have a whopping great AP in the multiple thousands of pounds; Which as I said, you don’t get back.
The taxpayer is not paying a penny towards these vehicles besides the fact that Motability don’t currently pay VAT which I believe is up for discussion.

I think a really important point to make here is that PIP is categorically not means tested (even millionaires can claim it, provided their health meets the criteria) and is not paid to replace a disabled person’s income! In other words, people do not live off PIP instead of working, it is paid to cover the added costs associated with being disabled. Costs non-disabled people likely have never even considered, such as cleaners when we can’t do it, basic gardening when we can’t do it, extra electricity for when medical equipment is used at home, ready meals when we’re bed-bound, delivery charges for every single thing we buy because click & collect isn't possible, taxis to work because the bus always already has a wheelchair user on it, along with lots of other small but mounting costs we have zero choice but to pay because the alternative isn’t an option for us. The lowest rate of PIP is just £29.20 per week so we’re not talking big money!

Millions of PIP claimants work full time but crucially, couldn’t do so without PIP and in many cases, without Motability!

As I said above, even wealthy people are eligible to claim PIP to cover the added costs associated with their disability and they can, if they receive the highest rate of the Mobility Component of PIP choose to use Motability. If they want to spend £7,999 plus £77.05 per week to lease an Audi Q4 for 3 years then they can but not many do because it’s a lot of money to have nothing to show for it after 3 years.

So no, nobody is being ‘given free BMWs, Audis or Mercedes’ regardless of what’s being said by anyone!

If people are so confident there is no fraud and nobody hamming it up, how about a £1,000 tax free reward for members of the public who report, with surveillance evidence, claimants found guilty, from that evidence, of commiting fraud?
For example, people who claim they can't walk walking round all over the place. Wasn't there some bloke recently claiming disability for mobility who just ran a marathon?

Then you'd have people grassing up people who don't look disabled

I've been grassed up and had a compliance interview. It was horrible

Look, found it
metro.co.uk/2024/07/16/mum-claimed-20-000-disability-benefits-caught-running-marathons-21235116/

It said she got £2,200 per month in PIP, that's loads, it's not that much surely, that must be wrong?

I think you might be referring to "Sane in an insane place " it was a study in America by David Rosenhan, in 1973
He got some psychology students to get themselves admitted into psychiatric facilities,
And once there act normally, even their typical actions were considered to be traits of mental illness ,bu staff
It was very interesting.

No its obviously nonsense ,the highest amount you can receive is £749.80 every four weeks.

Yes, I think you're right!

They have now phased out the lifetime awards at least partially for this reason.

everyone who was on DLA I believe has now been moved over (except apparently those born before 1948 which I didn’t know)

pip has a maximum of 10 years before review.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/before-claiming/if-you-get-dla/

Yes, I suggested it because a pp said Sweden do undercover survalence and find more disability fraud. A cheap way to do it is to use the public. I know a relative completely swinging the lead, has done for decades. I wouldn't grass her up for any amount of money, but somebody would.

I don’t think my grandmother thinks she is doing anything wrong.

As far as she is concerned, she has paid in all her life and she is entitled to it (the car). Which she clearly is, if she has managed to get one.

She is hardly a poor pensioner either. She owns her own property, has savings and been the recipient of multiple inheritances. Yet was absolutely outraged at the suggestion that she didn’t really need the Pension Age Winter Heating Payment. Lol.

I don’t think her attitude is that unusual, to be honest.

I also don’t think telling close friends/relatives something, is telling “all and sundry” either.

Two questions:

a) Why haven't you reported her if this is such a clear cut and obvious case of fraud?

b) Why should people pay any attention to your posts if you're openly advertising that you don't understand the very system you're criticising?

But then someone would think I'm committing fraud when I go to work and look well. When in reality I have multiple organ failure, brain damage and bpd. Not everything is always as it seems. How many time on these threads do people say my neighbours on pip but he's completely fine. The reality is they know nothing about this neighbour or the conditions he's claiming for.

You would have to know for sure that someone is on PIP and the exact reasons what for, and the criteria that person met to get the benefits.

Well, she was born in 1944, so she must still be on DLA.

I can see why they have phased out the lifetime awards.

Why on earth would I report my elderly grandmother. Behave.

Also, why do I need to understand the system? My grandmother has been open that she applied for the car for my cousin to use it. Did you even read my post?

Or grassed up by people who have no idea about how a lot of conditions can fluctuate.
I have lost count about how many times I have heard people say some relative or neighbour claims to need a wheelchair but they have seen them out without one, so they must be committing fraud. It is like ambulatory wheelchair users do not exist.

I was not necessarily referring to your Grandmother. Read any thread like this one, and you will get multiple posters, saying things like that. They seem to know a raft of people only too willing to proclaim loudly to neighbours, the mums at the school gate, anybody that will listen etc, that they are robbing the system. Personally, I have never met anybody in real life who has said that.

They always seem to overhear their neighbours talking about benefits in their garden.

Neither have I, i haven't got a clue about people I know well finances and full medical history let alone neighbours and the mum at the school gate.

And its always people who don't agree with benefits. Strange that 🤣

Because you clearly feel strongly about it; the tone of your posts and your persistence shows that. If you feel strongly enough about it to keep posting on here stirring up negative feelings about motability claimants in general but not enough to report some you say is clearly claiming fraudulently, you're a hypocrite at best and actively aiding and abetting benefit fraud at worst.

This thread isn't just about your grandmother; if you're going to extrapolate her situation wider than your family on a public discussion forum, you should at least know a little about the system you're discussing. Or you can just continue to be proud of your ignorance, I guess?

"I know nothing about the benefits system" is just Mumsnet tinkly-laugh speak for "I wouldn't know anything about that because I'm not a scrounger".

Same.

Some people will obviously (correctly) assume that we get DLA for our son due to the Motability car and the fact that he's a wheelchair user but no one I know has ever asked about it and I've never brought it up either.

As long as there's a thirty grand fixed penalty (ie, no right of appeal) to be paid by the reporter to the victim when they are found to be making a perfectly legally compliant claim and a two year prison sentence for a repeat offence.

That would reduce the numbers leasing a mobility vehicle, as they'd be able to buy and run a car for a couple of years on that.

Sounds like a win-win!

I don’t feel that strongly about it, to be honest.

The only reason I keep posting about it is because of people like you, saying ridiculous things like I’m aiding and abetting fraud 😂

Or continually questioning what I’m saying. Insinuating that I’m a liar.

I have a really hard time believing that the situation in my family is the only instance of it happening. My family members are hardly Machiavellian, evil geniuses. Indeed, other posters have confirmed similar situations in their own families.

That isn’t to say that everyone claiming through the Motability scheme is doing so fraudulently. How ridiculous.

But there is such denial that it happens.

Why?
^^
I know nothing about the benefits system" is just Mumsnet tinkly-laugh speak for "I wouldn't know anything about that because I'm not a scrounger".

No - I don’t know anything about the benefits system because I don’t claim
benefits. Nothing I can do about that. The fact that you’ve used the word scrounger says more about your viewpoint than it does mine.