Further maths A level?

[furthermaths]

DD loves maths and is predicted 9 at maths/further maths gcse/level 2. However everyone keeps saying how hard the A level is and how many drop out and am wondering if it is maybe more suited to those who are better at the maths challenges etc. Or would the cats testing be a good indicator of potential.

really hard IME!! All A-levels feel like a big jump up from GCSE and I sailed through GCSE maths but found it hard. I think part of the problem was that we started A-level maths and further maths at the same time. Ideally it would have been better to put us through GCSE maths a year early, then do A level maths in 2 years and further maths in U6. But our school wasn't that sort flexible! I dropped it after L6 because i did it as a 4th subject.

A level maths is a large step up, well was for me (I passed O level at 14 with grade A, doing the exam in half the allotted time). However, that does not mean your DC should not do it.

I took further maths many years ago and did find it quite difficult- it was on a completely different level to the normal a level maths. However, if your dd is one of those rare people to whom maths just makes obvious sense, she will enjoy it. But I would recommend thinking carefully whether she is one of those people- they seem like a breed apart to me, and have brains that just work in a different way to most people's.

If she gets 9s for GCSE Maths and GCSE Further Maths, she is fine to apply to do A-level Further Maths.

It's really not that much harder than A-level Maths, and if she doesn't like it, she can drop it.

But this is up to her, surely?

If she actually loves maths, it shouldn’t be a problem. What does her teacher say?

if your dd is predicted a 9 for both then she shouldn’t have a problem with a level maths and further maths. My dd took both and found fm mechanics tricky but plenty of practice and lots of past papers solved any issues she had. One of the biggest changes between gcse and a level is that you are no longer really told how to solve the problem and you have to think - what do I have in my maths toolkit that would help me here? My dd absolutely loved both courses - highlights for her and her classmates was pointing out to the teacher they was a faster way to solve a problem and it felt like a team working together rather than the traditional student/ teacher dynamic.

Of course it is up to her! Her teachers are desperate for her to do it, last year there were no girls doing FM. She is targeted and predicted 9s and has finished maths curriculum before starting FM curriculum at school so well set compared to schools teaching FM after school in year 11.

I am just trying to check if there is anything she could be aware of so she makes an informed choice especially regarding the way FM is taught ie maths yr 12/fm yr 13 or regarding class sizes so she can consider this in her choice of 6th form. Also what happens if you drop it at end of yr 12 as she had asked what do those students do as we were told in some schools one 3rd drop it.
Any thoughts on ideal class size for FM?

I think if she enjoys it, there's no harm in giving it a go! Plenty of people do maths A-level every year!

My own mum did maths A-level for fun in her late 40s, and then did Further Maths A-level a year or two later. :) Maths is just fun to her!

Does she know what she wants to study at university yet? That will be a factor too.

Does she want to do it and is she likely to study maths or physics at university? I did it and was grateful as it gave me about a term of ‘breathing space’ in the first year of doing physics BSc.

My DS was going to do this but that meant he would be doing 4 A-levels plus an AS level. In the end he chose a Core Maths AS level which had the option to continue as further maths A level or stop after year 12. He stopped and focussed on his 3 other A levels for his second year. He was glad in the end that he didn’t overcommit. He’s studying Accounting at Uni so it was relevant. He also got 9’s at GCSE and it was fine for him.

Edited to add, his first year of Uni was revisiting a lot of content he’d done at A level so it was easy for him. Those students who hadn’t done this had to learn from scratch whilst managing the transition to Uni life.

You say that she’s predicted 9s at GCSE - is that because she’s a hard worker, or does she just get maths?

I did FM at A-level and found it a piece of piss, but core maths just comes easily to me. If she’s a maths nerd (like I am) then she’ll do fine, but being a hard worker can only get her so far - she should know which she is.

It depends what she wants to do going forward
If maths isn’t a required subject for a career/Uni move then all the Unis will want is the grades

Id be careful at teachers pushing this if as you say girls taking up further maths isn’t at a high rate in your school. I’d hope that’s not the schools modus operandi for pushing it

My DCs did maths and sciences at A Level. I expected them to say that maths was the hardest but it was Biology - both agreed on this.

DC1 got a 9 in GCSE maths and Astar in further maths and an Astar in A Level maths. DC2 got a 6 in GCSE maths and a B in A Level.

I would normally assume that a kid who is predicted a 9 in GCSE is likely to do well in A-Level. OP, just ask the teachers. They'll know whether it's a good idea for your DC.

Does she know what she wants to study at uni (if she wants to go)? DS had to have FM for his engineering course (and get an A star for his place 🤯) but he really enjoyed it. He never did very well in the Olympiads though so I wouldn't worry on that score.

If your DD enjoys maths and is on track for a 9 then she will, I'm sure be fine. (The ones who dropped out of DS' FM class were the ones who didn't need it, sort of enjoyed maths and thought it would be easy to do alongside maths A level, but weren't really committed or found taking 4 too much..)

What are the teachers like? It’s hard in itself but also the grade boundaries are really high because everyone who does it is good at maths. My son did it in 2024 and scraped an A* with over 90%. For edexcel there are only 8 questions per paper so really you have to be able to do every question.

People make a big deal about FM but it really isn’t that hard. What is hard is that you generally do it with 3 other A levels so Your total workload is much higher than everyone else’s. Generally you have an hour of homework a night per subject. If you do 3 A levels then you have at least one free period each day. If you use these productively (and most don’t!) then you will leave school with less than 2 hours homework each night. Someone doing 4 A levels will have 4 hours worth.

My Year 11 is on the Team GB pathway for her sport and trains about 20 hours a week for her sport. Went to a sixth form open evening recently and explained the situation to the head of year to see if they can support. She said they could but she should consider if 3 A levels are the correct route for her or if she should consider a more vocational course. Then we told her that dd wants to do 4! That was fun! 😂

Depends what she wants to do at uni. My DS wants to study Economics and Geography at LSE. He’s also predicted to get a 9 in both maths and geography, to be honest he’s likely
to get 9s across the board but there’s a couple of subjects which may be an 8- we’ll see in the mocks next month.

Anyway, he was advised further maths was unnecessary for that course. They wanted maths and geography as a minimum and then recommended an essay based course which economics kind of is.

So crux is, it totally depends what she wants to study at uni. I realise that can be a big decision for most 15/16 year olds but she does need to consider it.

Oh and sorry, should have said, we were advised to stick with three A levels because most who do 4 are totally burnt out and often end up dropping one.

He does extracurricular stuff like army cadets which takes up a chunk of his time so 4 would be a lot. If your DD also does extracurricular things, this is worth considering.

students who take FM are often taking 4 levels so dropping one is more straightforward. You need to be good at and love maths to take FM!

I did FM (a long time ago!); I sailed through GCSE, but found I had to work at A level (but got straight A's, highest grade then). At my school most people did 3 A Levels; you could only do 4 if that included double maths, and it was taught in one timetable slot. The advantage of that was that we studied the content in a sensible order, doing A level maths in Y12, then A Level FM in Y13, rather than doing them alongside each other. The downside was that the lessons were at a fast pace to cover the material.

DH also did FM A Level. He found it needed very little effort, as it was 'obvious' to him - he went on to do a maths degree. There are others like him out there (at least one on this thread), but I think they are fairly rare. Your DD might be like me, might be like DH, or might struggle more - I don't think those of us on this thread can know. As others have said, it's definitely worth thinking about what she wants to do beyond A level, if she knows. Anything STEM based, FM will help.

Yes, FM essentially covered all of the first year maths on my degree course. Made the first year of university much easier.

If your DD isn’t planning on doing a maths/science-orientated degree then it’s worth asking whether it’s worth the effort.

It depends? Does your DD have to work hard to get the 9s in GCSE Maths. Or is she one of the gifted ones who just find maths so simple and obvious that it's boring?

DH did Further Maths at A Level and took Maths as his subsidiary subject at university. DD2 did Further Maths at A Level and she walked it. It meant that she could relax during her first year at university and helped tutor other students who struggled with the maths component.

Poor DD2 takes after me and had to really graft to get a 6 for her Maths GCSE.

If she enjoys maths and the school can properly support her in doing it, I would say go for it (if she wants to).

It is definitely a step up from A Level Maths, but for anyone who enjoys maths, it should be OK given proper teaching (*).

(*) Many (many) years ago, I did FM A Level and S Level maths in 3 hours a week (for both) of teaching (half the time devoted to any other A Level), and lots of past papers, with a teacher who had never taught either of them before… Strangely enough I didn’t get the top grades that Cambridge wanted on these two exams.