Further maths A level?

[furthermaths]

DD loves maths and is predicted 9 at maths/further maths gcse/level 2. However everyone keeps saying how hard the A level is and how many drop out and am wondering if it is maybe more suited to those who are better at the maths challenges etc. Or would the cats testing be a good indicator of potential.

At the moment she wants to do maths at uni but who knows after spending half her week doing maths in 6th form if she will change her mind. She didnt need to work to be at a 9 for maths at end of yr 10 but not sure if she will need to work for fm in yr 11. However she has a lot of out of school commitments so there is no way she could do 4 hours a night and that seems far too much to me. Her sister's didnt do anything like that.

Any comments on class sizes or what students do in maths lessons if they drop fm at end of yr 12. Thanks

Our daughter has just finished her masters degree in maths.
She too her GCSE a year early and got an A.
She was determined to study maths at uni and was advised to take FM.
Unfortunately her school didn't offer it.
She doesn't appear to have suffered, she git her 2nd first

Well done to your daughter. I think if school offer FM they are expected to take it if doing a maths degree but if school dont offer it that is fine.

If she’s considering Maths at university and might want to apply for a more competitive course (Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial, LSE, Warwick, Durham) then she’ll need FM. Although universities recognise that not all schools offer FM there is an expectation that you are at that level for some courses. Equally if she might be thinking of Economics or Computer Science then Further Maths may be expected.

It also depends on the combination of subjects - Maths, FM and Physics have some overlap in content and do complement each other so the workload is slightly less than doing, for example, Maths, FM and Economics. Whilst I wouldn’t underestimate the workload for 4x A-Levels, DC who did four treated it like a full-time job and made good use of free/study periods so didn’t have an excessive amount of homework. They still managed to play plenty of sport. Other DC who only did 3x A-Levels spent a lot of time socialising and drinking coffee at college so, in comparison, probably had more work that needed to be done at home!

If her teachers are desperate for her to take it, they clearly believe she can do it. DD’s maths teacher wanted her to take FM and said she would be bored if she just took A level maths. Pace was fast- covered all of maths a level in year 12 by the May and then started the FM content and took both a levels together in year 13. She also took Biology and Chemistry and as pp mentioned I think Biology was the hardest due to the sheer volume of content.

There is a bit of ‘reading between the lines’ for the top universities. Some will need you to sit one of the entrance tests (TMUA or STEP) which are much more difficult without FM. However for many good universities there is no FM requirement, it’s worth beginning to look at the entry requirements for different places.

I agree that Further Maths A level made the first year of my degree easier.

My dd is in y12 doing Maths, FM, psychology and Eng Lit. She is one of two students doing M/FM/Eng lit in the year.
She is in the top 10% of the maths cohort and the bottom 10% of the FM cohort, but the cohort is extraordinary, according to the teacher. I think there are 10-12 in the FM class.
DD has found it challenging, particularly mechanics, but has had full marks in some tests. At the moment she is planning to drop FM after as exams, to allow her the time to focus on the other subjects, which she is predicted A starss in (also predicted A star in FM)
She has struggled most with the additional work load FM demands. All her friends dropped to 3 a levels after term 1 so sge is working through all her free periods while they are having a laugh. Also 2 x more homework than other subjects, so her friends all have jobs but she doesn't have enough free time atm. I would prefer tgat she continued into y13, but totally understand why she would drop it.
We both agree that a y12 of FM is a fantastic scaffold for a high maths alevel grade.

Updated because stars made As bold!

Both of my sons did A level maths and further maths, then went on to take maths at university. They got grades 9 at gcse maths and both got A* for both maths and FM. I think it was easy to them since they are natural maths thinkers. They both have discussions about analysis, etc. my dd is taking maths and fm gcse but doesn’t want to take Alevels maths, she doesn’t feel that draw towards it. I think you should leave it to your dd.

A ‘9’ in GCSE Maths is not sufficient information. (3/4 of the year in some schools are getting that.)

A decent 9 ie over 85pc should apparently indicate an A star at A level. Very broadly
speaking of course.

UKMT Olympiad success would be a positive indicator but it’s too difficult to predict for FM as it is next level abstract thinking.

If DD is considering taking maths onto degree level at a top university, FM is worth having. While many of them say they offer on three A levels, there is so much competition that in reality the FM A level is essential if it was offered at their school.
If DD doesn't enjoy it, or it is impacting other grades, or doesn't want to pursue maths/related subjects at degree level, they can drop it. In my view it is only useful if you want to go on to study maths/adjacent subjects.

To echo other posters, good grades at GCSE may not be an indicator of good grades at A level in maths. It is a big jump.

My DD switched A’levels subjects from difficult ones to easy ones (easy includes Maths and FM). DS also took FM. Class sizes are small because… FM. I think if you have that sort of brain and want to do maths / physics/ engineering at uni yes why not! Let your DD decide tho.

Jus as an aside, I recently learned that Brian Cox professor of physics at Manchester uni, got a D in A level maths.

Which are the difficult a levels?!

I got an 'A' in Maths A level and a 'C' in Further Maths in 1976. I screwed up the Applied Maths FM paper. Irks me to this day.

@SinuousTendrils ha! For her, essay based. She’s one of those people who loves and is good at sciences and humanities. Started off doing 3 essay based A’levels but then switched to Maths & FM cos for her they are quicker and easier. The point being it depends if you have that sort of brain that makes maths “easy”!

Depends what she wants to study at university - for example for some, FM might be a requirement whereas many medicine courses specify not accepting further maths in the combo of a levels.

I was going to make this point - some unis for some subjects do not count Maths and Further Maths as 2 separate A levels, so it may depend on what she wants to do in future.

DH did M, FM, French and History and his Cambridge offer was AAA for History excluding Maths (in the days before A stars).