Elderly Dad …ongoing Care…Help a very frazzled daughter please !!

[Kevinbaconsrealwife]

Hi all and I wonder if you can help me…

before I start my post , the reason that I haven’t put this in Elderly Parents is because I’ve asked a question on there before and got literally one reply…so posting for traffic and some very straightforward responses please…..be kind, I’ve never been through anything like this before and I’m an exhausted, frazzled , menopausal , mid fifties woman with a lovely husband whose job is majorly at risk …oh and I very nearly died back in August ….im not being dramatic …that’s what nearly happened….so here goes….i will be as brief as I can be…

my darling dad is 84, I am 54…this year his physical health has “ fallen off a cliff”…. He is now doubly incontinent , cannot make even a cup of tea, let alone a meal…he can’t dress himself or toilet himself and has spent the last 3 weeks in hospital following several falls….he is mentally “ ok” , not as sharp as he was. 6 months ago but definitely not got dementia ( that we are aware of) he understands what’s being said , if very hard of hearing…for the past 2 years I have looked after him at home with the help of friends ….

he has gone into short term rehab today and adult social care have rang me and sent me info,….if anyone can answer me the following questions I would be beyond grateful…

he will need ( and he wants) to be looked after in a care home setting and NOT at home anymore as he is a massive Fall risk and knows “ the time has come”

he owns his own home but took equity release 8 years ago and had a good spend on holidays, gave his grandchildren money, cars etc…not a huge amount but he wanted us all to benefit while he was alive and to have the joy of seeing it…..if the house sells tomorrow there would be approx £40-£42,000 equity which any care home is welcome to…. How do I go about even starting the selling process? ( I am his LPA)

we share a joint account ( I’m an only child)which he added me to 8 years ago…we have a combined total of around £20,000 in it….can social care take “ my half” into account when doing financial assessment ?

his state and private pensions come in at just under £2000 a month…

can anyone please help me and talk me through “ what happens next”…

I love my dad with every beat of my heart and want to do the right thing….im not in any way able myself to help with “ top ups”

thank you in advance wise women of MN xxx sorry for any shit spelling or punctuation , I’m just knackered…

If it’s only his money going in (they can check) then yes they can take ‘your half’ - it could be seen a deprivation of assets. If they couldn’t everyone would put someone else on their account

If you have LPA your name shouldn’t have been added to his account really

Following as I fear I will soon be in a similar position.

Only child, mother is 88. I have LPA. Mum is an increasing fall risk

Me and my dad did this. Not a problem. It's a lot easier to just buy his shopping, pay his bills if you're a cardholder on the account rather than having to invoke POA. I was mindful that every payment had to be in my dad's best interests, but as long as you stick with that it was OK.

Ask social services about a deferred payment agreement, where they pay right now for his care but you agree to pay them back later when the house is sold.

You can only invoke the LPA if he’s deemed to not have capacity.

That doesn’t stop you from help MH hin sell his house though. You can get it ready, get quotes from estate agents etc. Is he able to understand the process avd sign forms?

Is it half your money in the sense of inheritance or did you pay in your own money and can prove that? The former is not really your money. If you're managing his money through a LPA your financial transactions should be clear and traceable.

In terms of selling the house, really it's the same as you'd do normally, just you can manage it on his behalf, the solicitor will want to see the LPA and probably the estate agent too. I'd suggest you have less opaque arrangements over the proceeds though.

What does the LPA say about when it becomes valid? The one for finances specifies if the attorney can act as soon as the LPA is registered, or only when the donor loses the mental capacity to make decisions.

He needs a social worker who will complete a financial assessment re: care home fees. It sounds complicated with your joint account. I don’t understand why you did that (definitely not advisable as you’ve got LPA) or if your half will be taken into account for the fees.

Talk to Age UK. They are really good on that stuff.

Thank you all very much…I honestly had no idea that I couldn’t be his LPA and be in a joint account with him….😳 bless him he thought he was doing everything right for the future ….

And he has capacity mentally so understands everything ..

It depends which LPA. There are two sorts. The finance can be used at any time but you have to have lost capacity to invoke the health and welfare one.

OP I would look at the AgeUK site. They have lots of excellent advice leaflets and guides on many of the topics you have questions about. https://www.ageuk.org.uk/

If he has capacity then the LPA isn’t in effect so don’t worry about that.

1. Just get some estate agents round and pick one.
2. Find a home that can take him.
3. You could use the £20k to pay for the first few months of care, along with his pension.
4. Contact social services to see if they’ll pay if the £20k runs out and the house hasn’t sold and you pay them back.
5. Once he’s down to his last £35k get the ball rolling for SS to pay. Note they will have to agree that he cannot be looked after at home. That is not guaranteed. If they do agree they also may decide to only pay for the cheap home on the other side of the borough even if he’s settled where he is.

@Kevinbaconsrealwife this is helpful
for understanding the LPA

https://www.gov.uk/manage-lasting-power-attorney/property-financial-affairs

I would suggest a conversation with Age UK. If you are in Scotland or Wales make sure you get in touch with the right branch as the rules are different. There is already misinformation on this thread so just be careful in taking this advice.

Whatever with all the above - if he has just c. £60k in total (£20k in your shared account and £40k equity) then he is close to needing council funded care. Get a council financial assessment sorted PDQ and when choosing a care home make sure you choose one that will accept him as a council funded patient when the time comes.

This is not correct.

Health and Welfare LPA is only when you lack capacity.

Financial LPA can be used at any time unless your DF specifically ticked the box on the application form that said only when I lose capacity.

Before you sell his home you need to make sure that SW are aware of how little money he has and that he will only be self funding for a short time so they would need to fund in future. They can then assess that a care home is the right place for him & advise on homes suitably priced for when he is no longer able to self funding as you don’t want to have to move him in future.

Echo point 5 of this post. Social Care have to agree that all options of living independantly have been considered and are not possible at the point that they take over funding. With your DF’s equity it may be that by the time this point comes he’s well over the threshold for residential care and the house sale will mean he hasnt got a home to return to anyway, but the threshold for funded care is very high now. Make sure a care assessment happens soon even if initially self funding.

Some homes are £300/£400 a week more expensive than others. If social care take over funding when under threshold (after taking into account income etc) then they only pay up to a certain amount (our LA is approx £800. Ask care homes you visit what happens then? Some expect family to pay the difference or residents have to move at that point, even if being there for years.

Also, if self funding attendance allowance continues. Is your DF getting this / eligible?

Thank you all so very much, can’t tell you how much I appreciate the replies….somehow I feel just a little less alone tonight…thank you again xx

One other thing, our local authority, in terms of its financial assessment, asks whether any financial gifts have been made in last 7 years (to check if deprivation of assets applies. You mentioned 8 years ago, so with our LA’s assessment those gifts would fall outside that. Might be worth checking with age concern re the equity release though. Our LA’s assessment asks if you’ve given away your property or part of and doesnt put a time limit on that. My understanding is though, for deprivation of assets to apply they need to demonstrate that the motivation was to avoid care costs.

Social services will do an assessment of need (do they think he needs to be in a home) and a financial assessment.

The tricky thing here (based on my experience) is that your dad has more money than the amount at which social services will pay (more than about £23500) but not so much that the posher homes will want to take him.

The home we ‘chose’ for my mum wanted 3 years’ fees in cash, in the bank, before they would agree to take her. 4 years ago that was about £210000. In her case she had that much equity but her flat hadn’t been sold - they still wouldn’t take her. I have to say that they might have not wanted her due to other factors - she ended up in a very specialist centre because of her needs. But I don’t think it’s unusual for homes to ask for evidence of a lot of money.

So he might be stuck - assessed as being ‘able’ to be at home with carers by social services, and although in theory able to decide on his own behalf to go into a home, he might find that only a limited number will accept him due to finances. But you need the assessments to be sure of all that. And you can fight, if you don’t think the assessment is right.

The good news is that the posher homes aren’t necessarily the best for individuals. I would start looking, and make a shortlist, because he’s going to find the whole process exhausting. Look above all for a nursing home manager you can talk to, and staff who stay a long time. Consider noise levels, outlook if that matters, his personality - social, introverted, keen on food, set in his ways, etc etc.

I don’t think there’s any issue about you being on a joint account with him with LPA, why would that be a problem?

And yes, you can sell the house etc with LPA assuming that it doesn’t say you have to wait until he has lost capacity, which most don’t.

Will the equity release be regarded as deprivation of assets?

@Kevinbaconsrealwife

1. House: As a pp said a solicitor and estate agent will help you sell his house. The solicitor will help with repaying the equity release company. I would try to get a fixed fee price from the solicitor.
2. Care Home: Use the CQC website www.cqc.org.uk to find one that takes LA funded residents. You want to avoid moving your Dad if possible so go and visit several.
3. Joint Account: You need to find evidence of how much you put into the account and then withdraw it. Going forward the joint account is for your Dad’s money only. You need separation of finances or the LA could take your money into account by mistake.
4. Pensions: These will be used to pay for his care. They will be taken into account when assessing LA funding.
5. Attendance Allowance: Put in a claim your Dad should get the higher rate. You do have to wait 6 months to claim but do it early, Really emphasise the help he needs for incontinence.
6. Continence service: Ideally get the home to sort this asap. It takes a while and they will eventually provide pads.
7. Clothes: They will all need to be labelled, even shoes, socks and underwear. Go for easy to wear e.g. tracksuit bottoms.
8. Toiletries: You will need to provide them. Again label with his name.
9. Photo’s: Make sure you put photos up in his room the day he moves in. It’s so important to have his memories.
10. House: You will need to declutter before you finally sell it. Do one room at a time. It is emotionally draining so if someone can help you it makes a difference. As you do this create a memory box, small items that trigger memories for your Dad, Also take photo albums in.
11. You: You cannot do this all in a couple of weeks. Pace yourself and practice self care. The most important thing is spending precious time with your Dad.