To be scared about how we will cope with more tax rises - council tax

[partytimed]

i really loathe this government. Usually with politics I feel like whoever is in charge I don’t notice much of a direct impact on my day to day life. Yes I’m aware of slow erosions in public services and I was no fan at all of the tories, I voted for this government im ashamed to say, and they lied and lied about their plans. I am so much worse off and if they double council tax bands virtually all of our disposable income is going to be gone. It feels like theft. I don’t trust them to spend the money I make properly it all feels corrupt and it’s just so depressing and upsetting.

Yes I know, remember it happening

my df made me pay my share which I was miffed about at the time

ooh I think more people should be contributing to CT who don’t at the moment but see what you mean about 2nd homes

With tax which is the point of this thread. If you do it the other way round you will just end up paying for it twofold unless you actually like the poorhouse model.

Actually people need to wake up and realise that actually the majority of people can afford to pay a bit more and stop crouching in their caves counting their money. It is selfish and impractical in a country on the skids.

I take exception to your tone which is rude and inflammatory by the way. I think your opinions are ridiculous, selfish, and reactionary FYI. I'm just politer than you.

We have a rising population. Every adult would pay it. Currently not everyone pays council tax.

Public sector workers who pay more tax are just paying a bit more back into the same pot they’ve already taken more out of in terms of a higher salary and related increased employer pension contributions. Which as we know are very generous.

Exactly, it's like when people who rely solely on benefits claim that they're 'taxpayers' too. Well technically you pay tax, but you are basically recycling a bit of the money you received from the system back into it. You are still a massive net beneficiary of the system and are not a tax payer in the way that people that are genuine net contributors are. There's not necessarily any shame in that but it is deceptive to try and make out that you are one and the same thing is bonkers.

VAT from private will not and has not helped State, in fact many have moved to State which has put more pressure. No offence, but 3 more years of pain and hopefully VAT removed!

Ah bless them. Low IQ and don't understand the difference between income tax and VAT

Not every adult would pay, not every homeowner or tenant pays council tax

1.4 pensioners don’t pay council tax

but it ended in riots previously, and it’s not be looked at by any government as a vote winning project after what happened in 1990

would suit me much better on a personal level

So what you're saying is we should tax our way to prosperity?

the majority of people can afford to pay a bit more and stop crouching in their caves counting their money.
So this is so out of touch with people in this country. The "majority" cannot afford to pay a bit more, a "few" maybe, but the majority are already paying a huge proportion of their income in direct and indirect taxes. This "majority" are working hard, paying for everything/everyone whilst a significant sector of society sit on their backside expecting everyone to fund them. Then there's the rich, a lot of whom have grown up with real privilege the likes of which the rest of us can only dream of. How much proportionally of their wealth are they contributing? Very little I expect.

All stamp duty raised 18 billion, 12 billion in house sales.

What would you cut to make good that difference or which other tax would you increase?

It's approx 5k on a house sale of 300k, nothing for a first time buyer up to 300k and 5% between that and 500k.

The Tories increased it before they left office... so much for Labour being the party of envy....

I thought Labour raised it up last March as well?

did it used to be lower tier up to 500k not 300

it’s so expensive in London to move as every family home is over 500K

I am a single woman in my fifties. ExH left with no warning a few years ago and I am running a household on my own which already means I am paying much more than one half of a couple. Margins are really really tight. There are so many women in the same position as me, often still with kids at home.

The majority of people can afford to pay a bit more and stop crouching in their caves counting their money.

This is laughably inaccurate. I cannot afford any more. Besides, I have worked my arse absolutely off to be in the position I am in now.

Really? you honestly believe that?

So a teacher or a nurse don't contribute anything at all? just parasites.

They don't teach the next generation of business owners how to count and read?
The Health worker doesn't keep that business owner in work by patching him up after illness or accident?
Doesn't take care of his children or parents when ill, allowing him to focus on creating wealth?

Good luck trying to have a functioning society without these people.

When will people realise that we need all levels of worker and business owner, the best societies operate in conjunction with each other, not against one another.

I am exasperated hence why I come across as rude.

I find these kinds of posts so difficult to respond to politely because they are not rooted in reality. You talk about raising tax to spend an inordinate amount of money on more public spending as if it's easy to do and will have no wider economic implications. That's just not how it works. You will damage the economy beyond repair and Britain will be severely punished by the markets. No political party will be able to do what you suggest irrespective of their ideology. They simply won't be able to raise the money to do this and it will end up with an IMF bailout.

Talk of the poorhouse is tiresome. We could make a lot of cuts and still be nowhere near this.

Like it or not polls consistently show you're in the minority and the majority of the population now want spending cuts over more tax rises. We live in a democracy and this should and will ultimately be respected.

I think the point wasn't that public sector workers don't contribute anything but that pay rises for public sector workers aren't some cunning plan to get more taxes out of them. Obviously the government would only get 20/40% of the extra money back in taxation so would still be net losers with regard to pay rises.

@Marshmallow4545

No its not tiresome, a pp said we should put the poor in a military style camp until they started working harder....

Thats exactly the Poor House model.

People focus on the headline figure/cost of public sector pay rises, without realising the Govt gets back a great deal in taxes and additional student loans.

No one suggested its a scheme to increase tax take, thats idiotic.

The entire Labour back bench is in thrall to their constituents. The constituents don't understand this, therefore the MPs choose not to as well. Or if they do, then they don't want to risk losing their seats.

I really think that it's time for a National Government.

I've never suggested that and neither has virtually every other poster on this thread. We need to stay rooted in reality. That isn't going to happen. Nor are we going to raise a huge pot of money, neglect to pay off our enormous debt with it but instead invest it in SEN etc and then miraculously achieve a level of social mobility that will allow us to make cuts to our welfare bill in a completely painless manner.

There are any number of ways you could replace the 12bn but my favourites (since you ask) would be to extend IHT so most estates are caught by at but for smaller estates at a much lower %.

I would also reform council tax to make it less regressive. I’d do it gradually over time so that people who wanted to move (downsize) could do so to avoid a higher council tax charge on a high value property. It would also be very cheap for them to move given I’d just scrapped SDLT!

Where did i say you did?

But it has been suggested and only myself and one other poster pulled her up on it.
I'm not sure at all it will never happen, i think it could, i think Reform would be more than capable.

You want to cut Welfare but to whom? Most welfare goes in children services, to low paid workers, adult social care - ie the elderly.

There’ll be a lot of people in arrears. It’s simply not manageable for a lot of people. If it doubles I’ll pay what I can and I’ll have to make a payment plan for the rest.

Extending IHT, would be electoral suicide, no matter how sensible.

People want it scrapped entirely not extended.

Scrapping SDLT may not make properties cheaper at all, it could easily have the opposite effect.

I think Children Services does need to be looked at as well as adult social care. I think what is and isn't funded by the state for the elderly may need to change, especially for dementia where individuals don't necessarily need to contribute towards their care. SEN needs to be managed more sensibly with very expensive placements and home to school transport being targeted for savings. I would cut bus passes and WFA for wealthy pensioners and make more things generally means tested.

You’ve misunderstood - Scrapping SDLT isn’t about making properties cheaper. It’s about removing barriers to moving.