I am scared of the state of healthcare system

[Notsurewhattheansweris]

I am going to start saying that I respect all the clinicians and doctors and my personal experience has generally been positivie (with the exception of one case which likely led to a physchological trauma).

Whenever I see things on Mumsnet, there are so many stories of negligence, people being fobbed off, missed cancers etc. etc.

I find it really difficult after my own experience to feel safe anymore. It did leave me with a health anxiety that I am in therapy for but I cannot see the end to it because ultimately, I do not feel safe anymore.

What do you do, how do you cope? Or is it just my anxiety talking and we only see the scariest stories here that are still rare and not the norm?

Please tell me you are joking about the opening line of your post?

The insurance system doesn't work for those on low incomes. The USA spends more on healthcare than anything else when it comes to spending. "On healthcare, with personal health care expenditure equal to $12,297 per resident. The U.S. healthcare system is the most expensive in the world, consuming a higher percentage of GDP than other developed countries, although this share has slightly decreased since 2020. Factors contributing to high costs include higher prices for services and drugs and a greater volume of services consumed."

It equates to $4.8 TRILLION.

Many people with a modest private healthcare insurance policy will be transferred over to a social health team post operative care. Especially when it comes to cancer.

Bankruptcy is common when people fall ill in the US.

The European system of healthcare is socialist based on need and income.

Free at the point of use is not free. Taxes pay for it.

My son's surgeon did the same. and when we ran in to him months later, he said that saving my son's life when things looked so bleak was easily the best day of his career.

All the staff were amazing too.

I think the best you can do is stay as healthy as possible. Not smoking, not drinking, drinking lots of water, eating healthily, getting exercise, taking vitamins, avoiding chemicals as much as possible.

I had a terrible experience with maternity services so I'll be doing all I can to avoid needing to go to hospital (obviously not everything can be avoided!).

My surgeon (emergency not life saving) did the same. He was asked to come to a&e after his day surgery / clinic had finished to examine me. Said he wanted to look after me and waited with me until 10pm when theatre closed and it was clear we weren’t going in that night- he was back at 7am to operate on me next morning.

all I kept thinking was i can’t imagine how you can have that level of care for a stranger. Imagine going home to your family at 11pm after missing dinner and leaving them at 6am to look after someone else.

Why are all the UK lefties so against it then?

All healthcare in Europe is based on the initial NHS system set up in 1948 by a Labour government, specifically Nye Bevan. It was a stamp based system alongside unemployment benefit. Hugely influencing post war torn Europe.

And run so much better with significantly higher levels of care and service.

The US system bears no resemblance at all to the European ststem. Both are based on insurance. That is the only similarity.

So there is a similarity then. Can you explain to me what National Insurance payments are when they come out of your wages?

I'm very sorry to hear that you experienced the need for health care in every European country. Are you a travel writer with a chronic illness?

This. The unpalatable truth. Too many people living too long, often with several multiple complex co morbidities. Hospitals chock full of frail elderly who insist on going home, refusing carers, unable to manage and falling about all over the place only to return via the A&E revolving door.

Difficult conversations needed about prolonging life at own costs. My own frail FIL of 84 with two cancers, one at stage four was started on chemo. Really?
Nurse of 35 years.

No darling, but I have a home in France and can read health related reports and interpret data relating to outcomes and gdpr spends.

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/sites/default/files/2024-09/Blumenthal_mirror_mirror_2024_final_v2.pdf

There's actual research that answers a lot of the disagreement on here. This international comparative study of healthcare systems, for example, has been running for many years.

What it finds is that

1. Other countries aren't much better. The UK/NHS ranks pretty high in overall performance, and way better than America, although not quite as high as when the Tories took over
2. Efficiency is probably not the problem. We rank top in that (of course, everywhere might be inefficient, but our system is the least inefficient)
3. Our level of care is nevertheless fairly shit. This is consistent with my experience. There's an appendix at the end which is quite interesting where you can see exactly where we're failing, e.g. we do badly on politeness and courtesy - again consistent with my experience.
4. Our outcomes are also poor. This often reflects access to care plus what's going on in wider society. So, for example, America has terrible outcomes despite good quality of care for those can get it. As a society we are more similar to America than the rest of Europe are in terms of things like inequality etc.

This all suggests that we don't need to change the funding system we just need to actually fund it. But also we do need to address cultural issues relating to poor care. I'm the biggest exponent of the free-at-the-point-of-care model, but there is a widespread defensiveness around the NHS which I think is both cruel for those who've suffered its failings and unnecessary for it's continued existence.

I worked over 30 years in the NHS, spent a couple of years working in a private hospital in USA and have family living in France.
So these are my personal thoughts based on my own experience.
The USA system is driven by profit and the pharmaceutical industry. It is terribly unfair. Health care is extremely unequal and many people have no access.
The NHS is technically available to all but is often a post code lottery. There are pockets of excellence, but there are some really appalling statistics, particularly around obstetrics, GP access and chronic disease management. Funding for services is a constant battle but waste and inefficiency is a problem. We have no control over how our NI contributions are spent.
My family's experience of the French system has been excellent. Insurance is based on affordability, employer contributions are compulsory. The co- pay system seems fair and good value. Treatment is accessible, prompt and efficient.

So all based on "insurance" but very different models.

I agree. I too feel scared. I live alone.
I had a heart attack last July and was sent home from A&E and told it was esophageal spasm. A fortnight later the whole scenario was repeated but this time they admitted me and, after 4 days wait, I had an angiogram and the stent that was needed ... R coronary artery 94% blocked in one place.
Subsequently other heart problems have arisen and I have been in and out of hospital, seen 5 different cardiologists, all of whom disagree and give me different meds and advice.
I frequently go into atrial fibrillation here at home on my own and it is terrifying .... weakness, chest pain, giddiness and rapid disordered heart rate. If I ring 111 they send an ambulance and then I spend 24 hours or more in A&E being seen by non-specialists who um and ah and generally send me home to wait for a cardiology appointment.
It is frankly terrifying ....
I have no doubt that I will be found dead at home one day ....

I have a home in Ireland. We share a common bond. The Euro.

I reside in the UK. Do you have a European passport? I do. As well as a British one.

I am so sorry. This is exactly the problem with the nhs. I hear the same sort of stories all the time. When it works it is great, but you have to be lucky.

That's still cancer specific, not sure why. It's not irrelevant as it's one example, but I'm talking about the state of the healthcare system, so stats like these - https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world
Or myriad other tables comparing healthcare by country, where we're nowhere near as high as we should be I agree but somewhere in the middle. You started off saying how we were much much worse than other countries, which you can argue, but equally you can argue we're much much better than other countries. The truth is we're in the middle and that balance is probably more helpful to OP than painting the darkest possible picture and feeding her health anxiety.

Free at the point of use means not needing to pay £200 to get through the door of an urgent care centre as you would in the US.

@endofthelinefinally precisely. In the uk provision for chronic disease is diabolical. I have an excellent rheumatologist but the services around them are woeful. Rude admin; disorganised clinics; sloppy and rude nurses; cancelled clinics and clinics that can run two hours late. It does not encourage confidence.

The GP services are variable, barely accessible and the poor communication and arrogance is reprehensible, notwithstanding the inefficient admin.

GDP is always calculated on the basis of money into the NHS. It is a shame the cost of lost work and inconvenience to the patient is not added to the GDPR calculations.

Similar to you when we have had to access healthcare in France the difference has been remarkable. Accessible, effective and most of all the staff are usually helpful and courteous.

It also means waiting on the pavement in the pouring rain with two bad breaks one of which needs surgery, for two hours. And then waiting another 12 in a filthy ED to deal with rude, dismissive and discriminatory staff. At which point the ability to be able to pay gor an ambulance and then entry to ED seems significantly preferable.