What do men do?

[JustPassingThyme]

I promise this isn’t a sarcastic question, you see generationally I have had no real example of a good father or husband. Consequently, I have no idea what role they are meant to fulfil in a family. Practically what do good men do as part of a family to be a good husband and father when not at work?

My mother’s father when not at work was at the betting shop or arguing and violet. Thankfully, mother did improve massively on the poor example she was given. Unfortunately, my father was just bad in a different way, when not at work he was in the corner playing computer games, or out drinking. He never did anything around the house, I mainly remember for the small amount of time he was at home he was grumpy in the corner. Anyway, he left when I was eight and I never really saw him after that.

I asked my mother, and she said my father would take the bins out and mow the lawn. (IMO he only did these things because other people could see him doing them, he was only nice or did things when he had an audience that wasn’t family)

My mum remembers that my dad’s father would help her take dishes out and load the dishwasher after she made a meal for everyone. He also did a small DIY thing to fix a windowsill when he came to stay once. She was so pleasantly surprised by these things she remembers them all these years later. Clearly that behaviour didn’t rub off on my father.

I feel like I just know what a relationship shouldn’t be like, like I know what 100 red flags look like, but not what a green flag should look like. Help, please give me examples of what men should do?

When our DC were young, DH alternated bedtimes with me.
He fixes things and sorts things out.
He was a rock in covid when my DD's and thus my MH sunk through the floor.
He shares responsibility for decisions.
He does the washing up.
He is steady and reliable.

Communicate with partner to agree who does what. Notice things that need doing and organise getting them done. Demonstrate emotional support to other family members- be interested in them.

In fact, whether someone is male or female isn’t relevant. We should all work as a team to support our family.

I think I’ve been very lucky, as the men in my life have been some of the best humans in my life. From my grandfathers and my dad to my lovely husband. Like women though, they’ve had different skills and brought different things to my life. All of them have been loving and supportive and more than pulled their weight - even the older generations not just taking on traditionally male roles, but being actively involved in child rearing and wider family caring responsibilities along with household chores like ironing, cooking and gardening. None of them did all of those things, but then neither do I!
In terms of green flags, you’re right they’re harder to see than red flags, but how a man treats other people - from waiting staff in restaurants and people on the train to their family members - is usually a good starter. When I was dating, if someone was rude to someone, I wouldn’t see them again. If they ask how you / your family are and listen to what you say, those are good signs. If they can take care of themselves competently - feed themselves proper food, dress themselves in clean clothes and do their own cooking and laundry, it’s a good sign they might keep doing this and more in a relationship. Sorry - not sure if that is helpful, but those are the things that occur to me.

Pineapple sunshine has great advice. Also how do they act when visiting their parents for a meal for example, to do they sit and get waited on or jump up and cook/clear etc

My partner does his fair share of cooking, cleaning and looking after the kids. He's a capable adult and one of the reasons I love him so much. I have 4 children i don't need another one.

Thank you for the great advice.

The problem for me is I watched my father be performative for others. He would cook for my mother and be very nice when they had a dinner party, but never cooked otherwise. So I just don't trust that a man who does something nice once for an audience will do it consistently over years for me.

I understand that in a relationship we all have different strengths and tasks should be divided up to play to them. Thing is I really wasn't around men often growing up, so I don't know what their strengths tend to be. When I think about parenting, I just assume I will be doing it all, I don't think that's how it's supposed to be.

We play to our strengths. He does the stuff I'm not so good at (eg anything that involves particularly heavy lifting) and vice versa (eg admin). We take turns with things we're both perfectly capable of like getting the kids ready for bed or emptying the dishwasher, even though I currently do most of it because he's out working and I'm not. We work on stuff together and when we can we'll do something fun.
Further practical things: helps manage the kids' behaviour, cleans up after himself (mostly!), checks all the obvious is ok under the bonnet of my car, takes the bins out when extra heavy and just because, fills up the soap if he sees it's empty, changes the children's bedding and cleans up if he notices before me that they've had an accident, offers occasional lifts and assists with practical things for the older children, gives great hugs... Looks after us all basically!

There are no rules. You agree together how it will work. For us it has changed over the years. I was SAHM or very part time while kids preschool and primary aged. DH would help with what he could but would often eat at work so I would eat with kids at teatime and no further cooking required. When he lost his job, I went full time and he did all the shopping and cooking and managing the kids drop offs and pick ups.
Now, he still shops and cooks. He does all the bills, finances, DIY, even car maintenance these days. I work longer more stressful hours and I will clear up after meal, tidy kitchen and also most of housework. I will put laundry on, he will hang it up, I will put away. He is close to our 3 children as they have been used to him being around. My own dad was self employed delivery man who would have been in his 60's before he knew how to cook anything, but he did used to take us to work with him to give my mum a break. We mainly work to our strengths and share out the bits that no one wants

Yes, you have been lucky I suppose, but you were also given a blueprint for what a decent man looks like, which in turn shaped your expectations for the type of man you would choose / expect in the future.

I was lucky enough to have the same, and I really think thats the reason that ive not suffered through shitty relationships with bare minimum men. I expect a lot more.

If you have been raised in a family with bare minimum men as your role models, I imagine your bar would be set a lot lower for your partner.

My husband is the breadwinner
He puts the bins out, mows the lawn and tidies the garden/ rakes the leaves. Power washes the patio.
He’s a whizz with tech/ computers etc so always sorts all that stuff out
He does all the long-distance driving
But that’s it - I do everything else

He’s zero emotional support so I have developed wonderful friendships with lovely women over many decades
Can’t do anything around the house, eg putting up a shelf so I pay a handyman for that
Is a bit of a dreamer when it comes to money so I handle all of that

My DF raised me single handedly, supported me in every way he possibly could. Then I met DH and he supported him too. Now DH has a very successful business, and is somehow an even better dad than my own dad was. Everything is 50/50, in fact probably more 60/40 in his favour. My mum was shit though so it all evens out

If you're asking what men should do in a family... imo they should share the domestic load equally, but adjusted for how much time either parent works in a paid job (regardless of salary). They should be willing to do, and capable of doing, any household or parenting job (apart from breastfeeding ) and do it as effectively as their wife/female partner. They should not need to be constantly given pointers and instructions.

Nothing wrong with dividing household jobs up along traditional male/female lines if it's equal and what both partners prefer. Not parenting though - that shouldn't be viewed as women's work.

@Pineapplesunshine

I think I’ve been very lucky, as the men in my life have been some of the best humans in my life. From my grandfathers and my dad to my lovely husband. Like women though, they’ve had different skills and brought different things to my life. All of them have been loving and supportive and more than pulled their weight - even the older generations not just taking on traditionally male roles, but being actively involved in child rearing and wider family caring responsibilities along with household chores like ironing, cooking and gardening. None of them did all of those things, but then neither do I!

My experience too - grandfathers, father, uncles, nephews, etc have all been fine examples of how men should behave. All very family orientated, heavily involved with their children, and none were the kind who'd go off regularly to the pub or golf course, etc., to the detriment of the family (of course, they did have their own lives, but not to the detriment, i.e. only occasionally going to the pub or the golf course or other hobbies etc - not every weekend!). All highly reliable and would do childcare, school meetings, taking children to their hobbies/sports etc. as required. And yes, all doing their fair share in the house re gardening, DIY, cleaning up after themselves, cooking etc.

My father was in the RAF so did all his own washing and ironing etc too as that was what he was used to before marriage.

My DH is the same. It's probably why we've been together for 38 years as I'd not have put up with any nonsense and the first sign of him being lazy, or a "taker", he'd have been ditched. (As was my previous serious boyfriend who didn't last long once he showed his true colours!). I'd have rather been single and childless than end up with a waster/lazy/inconsiderate partner.

While my dad wasn't the easiest, I knew he would always be there to help. I lost count on the times he collected me from parties, taught me to ride a bike and drive a car, taught me to change a tire, took us shopping without commenting (my mum didn't drive).

We had a fairly conservative set up at home but when my mum was in hospital he would step up and cook for me, ensured I had clean clothes, did my homework, checked on me (bumbling and unsure but he really tried).

DH is a great dad, when DD was young we alternate bedtime, he did all things practical, did nursery and school runs, took DD to the dentist/GP, attended parent evening.

We have some split in chores but we both know what to do when the other one is not there and as we both travel for work, it happens frequently.
DD is now at uni and I get the text with questions about the laundry and DH gets the ones when she wonders about doing the dishes.

He is there emotionally, supports and encourages.

He is hardly perfect, he can be stubborn when he thinks he is right and a joker but also knows when to reign himself in again.

Before divorce I was in a situation where I was FT and earned more than PT teacher OH due to illness and being able to do childcare and housework. I therefore:

• cooked about 30% of meals but always washed up on the meal I did not prepare
• did 95% of diy and 100% of car faffage/cleaning/maintenance
• sorted bins
• about 30% of the housework (100% of ironing though)
• did 95% of admin e.g. sorting bills and managing finances
• did 50% of parenting and childcare at evenings, weekends or when I was on holiday
• 50/50'd or more all the wee baby things like nappies, up at night, sharing feeding etc when I was not at work.

IMO, money and effort are not particularly 'tradeable' and certainly not in a one sided way. Team effort and responsibility on both fronts. I have friends who are open about 'having a big job', but seem to duck when it suits them 'because long day at work' or 'work demands'. Maybe I am wired differently, but I told my boss more times that I was needed at home than I told OH I was needed at work.

I worked to live, not live to work.

Spending time with my kids was a pleasure (heh, we all know it sucks from time to time) and I was happy to do what was needed to make sure household ran smoothly and we could spend weekends and holidays doing Nice Things.

This.

In theory, everybody should be contributing equally to across the whole range of tasks needed to run a household and family such as housework, childcare, sorting out household finances, gardening, repairs, parental taxi service. etc. based on their non-working / non-job hours, their skills and preferences too. That’s only fair. Kids should have age/dependant chores too. Share it out (or pay if no one can do it like DIY).

Some might not be good at numbers/finances so the other does that. Someone might not like ironing so the other does that who doesn’t mind. Someone might not drive. Someone might not be very good at DIY. It is whatever works for your family and will be different for everyone.

Resentment builds if it’s unfair.

That’s the only fair way in theory. In practice, I think in the majority of households, women end up doing the majority even if they work the same hours. It sometimes doesn’t help that schools etc always defaults to the female parent, for example, always phones the mother say if the child is ill at school and needs picking up!

They should take an equal share. That's it really.

They should cover 50% of what needs to be done for the household to be successful.

I'm kind of surprised you need to ask. Ime they don't do very much but they're pretty vocal about it so if one near you has done anything you'll have heard by now.

Aside from thinking about jobs in the household (quite a surface level way to think of it) you might want to consider the emotional realm.

I’ve thought deeply about what a father needs to do in a household as didn’t have a dad around for much of my childhood, and my son hasn’t had his dad around either so I’ve wondered about how to fill the gap as a lone mum. Teal Swan is an interesting person to look up on YouTube - she talks about how a man needs to ‘contain’ a woman in a relationship - creating a sense of safety and for her to feel ‘held’. This whole concept used to be quite difficult for me as I felt as a lone woman I had to be able to do it all and I didn’t want to trust or be emotionally held by men as my experience was that they’re incapable of that and they abandon me.

I think actually the roles men and women have traditionally taken in relationships can look different e.g. to be a thriving single person or even a thriving person who is part of a relationship, we each need to develop ‘masculine’ and ‘feminine’ qualities within us. Eg we all need to have self leadership, contain our feelings, spend time ‘doing’ (traditionally qualities more assigned to / accepted in men) and also provide space for our feelings, pay attention to the emotional, spend time simply ‘being’ and considering others/following (traditionally more feminine qualities). We all need a balance of ‘doing’ and ‘being’ - human and being. Human beings.

You might find these articles useful too.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/behavior-problems-behavior-solutions/202103/what-a-son-needs-from-his-dad

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/behavior-problems-behavior-solutions/202012/what-a-girl-needs-from-her-dad

As pp has said- we are a team. We compliment and help each other. But his most important role is being a dad. Both son and daughter benefit massively from having him ‘around’ let alone spending time with them. He’s been an involved dad since they were born

What I expect of my husband/marriage-
a partnership - equals regardless of earnings/ status etc
shared division of household tasks/ child rearing
set tasks to reflect our skill sets - me organising, dh- heavy lifting and electronics.
fun/laughter/shared interests
shared outlook of parenting and finances
mutual support and love

We are equals despite dh working longer hours and earning more than me.
household tasks are reasonably shared but I definitely do a higher ratio for of child rearing and mental load. We have similar goals but not always on same page re parenting. We love each other and sometimes enjoy each other’s company but we also have a lot of stress which has put a strain on us.

id say I’m close enough.

All the men in our family are lovely. They’re grown ups who parent equally, see domestics as a joint endeavour, and take responsibilty for their part in family life - so for example my DH more than pulls his weight at Christmas and birthdays etc and has an individual relationship with all of our kids. They all have a good sense of fun and enjoy family time. My DH is my rock and we are always a team.

I just couldn’t be around a grown man who needs a surrogate ‘mummy’ to cook and wipe up after him, or one who was a tantrummy man-child who couldn’t self regulate his anger or addictions.

My husband does everything I do - we share the load equally. I will never understand women (or men for that matter) who settle for anything less.

DH does the trad man jobs like taking the bins out and doing the garden. But these days he also cooks most nights and often clears up afterwards too. He makes cups of tea, helps change the bedding, does his own laundry.

When DC were little he came out with us as a family every weekend, to child-friendly museums and soft play and farms, steam fairs and country walks. He drove DC everywhere when they were teens, picking them up late from parties, taking them to sports fixtures.

He is funny and silly and makes us all laugh often too.

Is that the sort of thing you mean, OP?

In my experience of the 3 men in my life who are generally kind and considerate. Not aggressive and don’t go to betting shops…

1. work hard, with ambition and earn good money for the family
2. homework and educational activities with kids
3. help around the house with laundry, bins, tidying, basic cleaning DAILY
4. odd jobs fixing, painting or lawn mowing
5. help to organise social calendar and make an effort to keep up family friendships
6. exercise, running or sport
7. driving / ferrying kids around
8. supermarket shop and errands
9. responsible for paying some of the bills and household admin
10. school pick ups when necessary (on set days of the week)
11. providing comfort and support
12. cooking some of the meals
13. feeding and de fleeing the cat
14. chatty and engaging some/ most of the time
15. have own interests, friendships and hobbies