Money doesn’t by class

[Theweedygarden]

Mumsnet is full of people who go on about their large salaries and how much money they have. Great. You have money.

But, god, you have no class, empathy or ability to understand how much others struggle. Being wealthy does not give you a right to be nasty and smug and superior to people who can’t afford to spent ££ on a rug or their food shop, or their bloody Christmas turkey,

Lots of people on mumsnet might claim to be wealthy, but they’ve definitely got no class or empathy.

Edit; and my dyslexic self spelt buy wrong! Sure that’ll anger people!

Yes I think LMC and UMC are the same in this respect although I would consider what you describe as LWC to simply be WC.

I think the people should get together and simply be normal people (which all of us apart from UC are) vs elites. We would be so much more powerful if we stopped fighting over who had the audacity to spend £2k on a tap and lease a Tesla.

Well, I have four degrees and a house, and I’d still definitely class myself as ‘educated WC’, as would DH.

I don't think they care, not even in the slightest!

I'd rather people were with someone on 100k+ and proud of it than shacked up with some loser who's never worked a day in his life.

Being WC doesn't automatically mean you have a shit ton of empathy and aren't nasty or smug. Those things have nothing to do with what class you are.

We have a standard supermarket chicken for Christmas dinner, buy our rugs from Dunelm and shop wherever we have vouchers for, but I'm not bothered if others choose to spend £150 on a beef wellington. Don't let it bother you OP.

Well yes, class and money are two seperate things.

I also only ever hear about it on Mumsnet. I don’t think I’m “privileged” my job is minimum wage.
Literally never met anyone who cares about this stuff.

I also don’t think there’s anything wrong with posters mentioning their massive salaries or savings (assuming they aren’t lying) if someone chooses to read about it and seeth with envy that’s on them (especially seeing as Mumsnet is anonymous so you don’t even know if it’s true)

I like a nice snapshot of society with all its different approaches to money and spending patterns.

Ahhh, the Monday morning goady class thread.
I wonder how long it will be before the traditional Monday anti-dog thread.

Meanwhile, OP has disappeared into the ether.

Hanging on to the vestiges of class in this day and age is absurd.

I’ve posted this before but DH grew up in part of what he calls the “underclass”: rough estate, no jobs to work in, most of his family dead by drugs or in prison by the time they were late teens/early 20s.

No money for anything, constantly hiding stolen goods around the house, joy riding, petty theft and violence part of every day life.

He now runs his own company with 20+ employees and a turnover in the 10s of millions. I have a traditional “UMC” job.

Our 4 DC were/are privately educated, our life consists of weekends in Palma, Como, Antibes. He golfs and drives a total midlife crisis car. We go to charity lunches where he bids thousand on mediocre wine and art. he wears a fucking blazer 🤣

To try and claim he is WC would be ridiculous - not that it’s ever come up.

Why? He’s the same as he was when he was growing up just with more money?

why do people think working class people have to be poor? I find it really weird. Surely if you know a variety of people you know it’s incredibly common for WC people to be wealthier than MC people?

but he’s not the same person as he was when he was growing up that’s the point.

It’s not just about having more money it’s everything that goes with that: values, education, networks etc.

but perhaps I don’t understand your definition of WC @Bambamhoohoo. What is it in your mind that makes someone WC?

People who aren’t the same as the OP kindly pipe down, your opinions aren’t as valid as theirs 😒

It's buy

There isn’t a straight answer to that and it’s obviously disputed anyway in terms of an “official” definition.

your culture is a big part of who you are and that is embedded in upbringing- what you saw, who you saw, where you lived what you lived in who you lived with. How can you dismiss that and move on?

what are working class values, and what is the idea that one can somehow change values to become middle class? That’s not really a thing- class isn’t value related.

That’s a bit unpleasantly judgy actually. A brickie on a building site and an aristocrat siting in his billion pound estate could VERY EASILY / very likely hold the same values.

education doesn’t really mean much imo- everyone has the same basic education available to them in the uk (particularly in this case as you say your husbands education was in a very deprived environment anyway) and university is the same cost for all (bearing in mind the very real issues with social mobility and education which aren't the topic of this discussion) Having a degree/ masters/ phd isn’t a class identifier anymore.

@Bambamhoohoo so if you can’t define class how can you argue that someone is identifying* into the wrong class?

i think there are some values that are stronger in WC v MC and vice versa - that’s not to say they don’t cross class divides and values can’t be shared.

You’re assuming that I am seeing a change in values as a positive. Which is not my point at all. I think valuing close proximity to family is stronger in WC: living in the same immediate area as your family; cousins going to same school; greater reliance on family for childcare and support. That’s a good thing.

*to make it clear he’s not “identifying” as anything, I don’t think we give it a second thought but i’m quite sure not a single person we meet would think of him as anything other than MC.

So in the interest of seeing if your suggestion would work for people in my kind of situation I applied for one of these credit builder cards and was told that I couldn't have one. So you see, it's not always as simple as that. Appreciate that you mentioned about the credit builder cards because someone else may be able to get one of they're in a similar situation

What’s class got to do with empathy? “Money doesn’t buy class”, is a different concept to empathy. Odd post.

If you’re JUST talking about money not buying class, then this has been the case for ever, and will continue to be so. Probably more so with the Insta/Dubai drive.

Or the “how do people afford holidays”. Err because they’ve more disposable income than you or prioritise different things. Do people think that everyone is struggling because they personally are. It’s really odd I find.

and yes we need people to spend to help the economy.

It was in response to:
“To try and claim he is WC would be ridiculous”

I don’t think it’s ridiculous at all. From what you’ve shared I would say hes quite clearly working class and I know many people would agree.
People “meeting” him have no idea about his cultural background do they? They wouldnt have a clue either way.

sorry eta- what you’ve listed about WC values also reflect lack of social mobility, not values.

Ok so what is it that makes him “clearly working class”?

I genuinely don’t understand.

Wasn't that the thread about the 2 grand or something rug the OP couldn't afford but really wanted?

It was a weird thread.

Being poor/working class also doesn't automatically qualify you as being kind/decent etc

There are twats everywhere you look.

I don’t understand why, in your view, this:

I’ve posted this before but DH grew up in part of what he calls the “underclass”: rough estate, no jobs to work in, most of his family dead by drugs or in prison by the time they were late teens/early 20s.
No money for anything, constantly hiding stolen goods around the house, joy riding, petty theft and violence part of every day life.

makes him so clearly working class, but add in this:

He now runs his own company with 20+ employees and a turnover in the 10s of millions. I have a traditional “UMC” job.
Our 4 DC were/are privately educated, our life consists of weekends in Palma, Como, Antibes. He golfs and drives a total midlife crisis car. We go to charity lunches where he bids thousand on mediocre wine and art. he wears a fucking blazer 🤣

suddenly makes him so obviously no longer working class. Do you think the WC don’t play golf or own companies? How does sending your children to private school make you middle class? How does going on holiday make you middle class? Plenty of WC people are high earners.

he’s the same person, same background, same experiences, same education, same family. Running a company successfully doesn’t make him MC- many working class people own companies.

I think- and I might be wrong- you think you can’t have money or self employment and be working class?

And OP is dyslexic. She says so in the opening post.

Ok so you’re just not going to answer my question @Bambamhoohoo ?

Firstly, to be clear I haven’t described him as working class, I stated that it would be absurd to do so. You’re the one stating he’s “quite clearly WC” yet unable to explain what it is that makes him so.

if I was forced to take a position I’d say his “class” sits outside modern definitions but it’s interesting that something in my post has clearly made you feel that he is WC, so what is that? Poverty?

I absolutely do think you can be working class and have money, many wealthy footballers and trades are working class.

I think class is routed in large parts your education and career and in the modern day to a lesser extent that of your parents.