Migrants to be a A level standard English - good idea?

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8679q0pe57o

I think this is entirely reasonable as communications such an important part of being able to work and become part of the community in the UK. Too many times I have encountered people in a work/retail setting where communication problems have lead to error. From simply having to repeat my self there times to be understood using different vocabulary to having to decipher strange sentence structure I continually am frustrated by this.

That's pretty much what they have brought in in France.

It's a good idea. I am fed up of ex pats over here (France) who have lived here for years (the worst one I've encountered is 22 years!) who don't speak a word of the language.

I think it is a very unclear article.

Alevel standard doesn’t have a clear meaning, I’m taking it to mean they could read an Alevel paper and converse with people on that level, so more a reading/ comprehension age. So people moving here need to be proficient speakers and readers.

Alevel English is irrelevant as the majority of people sit English literature, which is a specific skill set of analysing text.

I think so, maybe not A-level but certainly they should be able to converse in English language. Other countries have learning their language as a requirement.

I think it’s a great idea, far too many have a horrific level of spoken English which causes nothing but issues, especially in the workplace.

i don’t know how they’d measure this. A level language is Linguistics really.

but then, GCSE is just unseen literary analysis

Hmm I have a levels in two languages, one I could live in the country and more than get by and think with immersion my skills would improve quickly and I would become pretty fluent, the second I learned for two years only, got an A grade but am really not proficient in that language and whilst reading is ok I struggle to understand spoken in day to day contexts due to speed and accents. So what does a level proficiency even mean and how does that compare to real life application?

I mean, I expect they will measure it at B2 instead of B1 as they do now. There are the C levels above that. It's common to explain CEFR levels in terms of local school qualifications as most people find it easier to gauge the level that way. But the actual level is very well specified.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages

I think proficiency is key and perhaps the rule should apply to family members as communication is important for integration. If someone is proficient in English they are more likely to practise English with their children and avoid situations as in my home city where primary school children are effectively learning English as a second language with dramatic impact on academic success.

The vast majority of people in the UK do not have an A level in English and it doesn't seem to bother them,, so why just for this tiny group?

The article is very clear. It says they will need B2 proficiency instead of the current B1 proficiency.

If you had a Spanish A Level you’d expect to be B2 proficient (although tbh I got an A at A level and was only B2 proficient after two years at uni, and was C1 proficient with a degree so it’s top end A Level).

I knew from the headline they’d likely mean B2 level though, they’ve just translated it as that’s meaningless to those who don’t study languages. It’s not the same as an English A Level in the UK though

I agree with this. I have A level French, decent grade. No way could I converse in a business or professional setting. But I could tell you about the plot of a couple of 19th century French novels and order a meal or book a room.

We spend a considerable amount on translators in the NHS and I think this expense and potential safety issue can be addressed by such a policy. I think it's not only the lack of ability to speak English fluently which is frustrating it is the lack of desire. I don't think the argument that maintaining a foreign language is necessary for continuation of culture is a necessity as well.

The irony of this stance with the glaring basic grammatical error in your thread title @mids2019

Yes I was wondering this lol!

a decent standard of English so you could comprehend and A level paper = fine

Being able to pass an English A level = I might need to self deport despite being born here!!

I did English language A level and it was actually really technical I’m not sure I’d pass it now!

It's not about minor grammatical errors though is it? It's about migrants who fundamentally do not grasp the language and have English at such a poor standard that conversation is difficult and misinterpretation leads to error.

I took a taxi the other day and tried to make conversation with the obviously migrant driver and it was painful. I simply gave up in the end.

I don't think it is fair on both the migrant and the native population to have this language friction which leads to non integration and migrants seeking out communities where their language is more accomdated.

That helps no one.

Haha. The same. I have Alevel French and could hold a debate on the death penalty or give pros and cons of nuclear power but I couldn't hold my own in any work environment. Not without a year or so in at the deep end and a lot of patience from those having to work with me.

That's not really the same as needing A-level English, and I really doubt the intelligence of the people who decided upon this proposal. Holding a conversation and studying it at A-level are not comparible. It's such a ridiculous comparison, A-level English students aren't learning how to converse fluently because they tend to be native speakers. They read books, analyse texts and compose their own stories (for example). It's a million miles away from learning English as a foreign language; a completely different set of skills.

Regarding whether or not they should have a good grasp of English, yes of course they should. But it takes time. I lived in France for a year but couldn't really hold an interesting conversation with a native speaker. I can get by, but it's hard work. I'm lucky that the French didn't make me have A-level French before letting me stay. Everyone has to start somewhere.

B2 is not staggeringly difficult level to reach and is reasonable goal for an immigrant. I do not think it is on a level with A level no matter what it says though - I’ve taken a levels in English (language and literature) and also B2 German and the two just aren’t the same. A Level is a level which I think the average majority of Brits now would get a low grade in.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Hilarious!!!!!!

I wonder how many of the knuckle draggers <ahem> people who attended that "gathering" a couple of weeks back have A'Level English?
Or even a gcse L4 or above in it?

And I'm not even going to mention the writing or comprehension of oh-so-many posts on here.

A level does seem a high standard and I would perhaps question that but it's the principle that anyone who hopes to be successful in a foreign country needs the capability to speak the host language. In reality a lot of educated migrants have of course good communication skills but I do think we have the question of relatively uneducated migrants doing low skilled jobs having an English ability that is really quite poor.

we just have to look at the polls to see which political party is leading and there are reasons for this, primarily immigration. If people are questioned about immigration and their concerns integration would come job as an issue and language is quite critical for that.

This is a Labour policy backed by a home Secretary with immigrant parents and not resisted by an opposition leader of similar background so it is not about race but the ability to integrate successfully into this country.

No, but they're talking about an equivalent. And people who grew up here speaking English have more than that (verbally) special needs aside.

I think it's a very, very good idea and all countries should have it. It's a basic courtesy to learn the language of the country you are living in. And this includes English speakers living in non English speaking countries.

B2 is not a high standard. Especially if you were born in a country. The level could be changed on the event of special needs. The so called knuckle draggers will have this when speaking 🙄

If I passed GCSE French at a level 4 I certainly could not migrate to France and instantly be worker who could accurately and fluently speak French and socialise naturally. I would in reality be in the foothills of language proficiency and the same principle applies to the UK. The Labour party have had to bite the bullet with this one.

The policy does not effect high calibre graduates from leading global universities but does start to hopefully cut immigration numbers by focussing on unskilled or less skilled work. I do think we do not take into account the views of those that live in inner city areas where sometimes it feels non native speakers outweigh natural English speakers and the need to stop this progression.

What I think is hilarious when people in the UK complain it's that I have relatives in another country. There, there are many foreign workers who do not bother to learn the language and they expect the people in that country to speak to them in... English!

If they (and the people who live in my relatives -non English speaking country) can manage this, why is it impossible for people who are migrating to the UK to do?

Answer that

English is a highly regarded international language and I guess we are in the fortunate position to be able to communicate easily in the USA and other English language speaking countries. The fact is people are less likely to migrate from an economically successful country like the UK than want to come here. We therefore need to set a high bar for communication ability and this seems entirely reasonable.