Migrants to be a A level standard English - good idea?

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8679q0pe57o

I think this is entirely reasonable as communications such an important part of being able to work and become part of the community in the UK. Too many times I have encountered people in a work/retail setting where communication problems have lead to error. From simply having to repeat my self there times to be understood using different vocabulary to having to decipher strange sentence structure I continually am frustrated by this.

Bizarre that the headline says A-level when it’s nothing of the sort. It’s CEFR B2 standard. They’re not going to ask people to write an essay on The Waste Land for goodness sake.

I'm a native Brit with a home in the UK. My comment plays back comments today by Sir Sadiq Khan which I thought was a fair example of unintended consequences.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20v5z315l5o

True, regarding what a poster said, that if the level had been described as B2 instead of A Level people would not have objected so much.

I know many people who's DH works and speak English, their DC who have been born in UK speak English but the Mum has never learned. She doesn't think she needs to because they live in an area where the entire population are also from the same country they originated from. Some have lived here over 30 years and at home they all speak their own language. The Mum has never worked outside of the home. I've had do many DC interpreting for their Mum on parents evenings.

If you genuinely think there aren't enough native Brits who'd want to do that job that they need to hire people who can barely speak English instead, you're deluded.

There are free language classes offered, many of which are required by the job centre to attend. The ones who attend and become proficient, have qualifications from their own counties and fly high. Other have a minimum/no attendance and after 20 years jist got by with basics.

The problem with imposing this is if you are illiterate in your own mother tongue, so with a completely different alphabet and phonics it will be impossible to pass. Xx

Yep! The same with (British) expats (immigrants) in Spain. The kids learn Spanish sometimes quite quickly (dependent on whether they attend local schools or British/American schools in Spain), the adults not so much.
The adults continue to operate their daily and social lives in English. (see my post above)

I absolutely hate the use of the word mother tongue. Many second generation migrants are effectively illiterate in their mother tongue or first language. Especially ones that use a different alphabet. Some have never attend any schools to learn the language.

I think it’s reasonable for people to be able to communicate to a decent level in english. It means they have job opportunities, can engage with schools, healthcare etc. Saying “well ha we are a bunch of dumbasses who can barely speak english” doesn’t convince me we need more people with poor english skills. Plus low English requirements means you end up with an underclass of immigrants stuck in low paying jobs, do we want that?

Oh come on. This is just bollocks. The people speaking poor English in minimum wage jobs do so because good English broadly equates to good education. Hence they won't be in minimum wage jobs. We want them to do the shit work at poverty level wages, but speak lovely English while they do it? Dream on.

I don’t know….i think the current B1 test is pretty easy but as an ESOL teacher for 30 years and still going strong, i can tell you there are some people who will never get to the language proficiency of B2.

I used the expression with the intention of not repeating first language for my own style of writing. The thread is about migrants, not second migrants. It's a term I am happy to use and will continue to do so, I don't hate it.

I think to some extent if you migrate you can expect your children and grandchildren to become fluent in the country of migration and for your own native tongue to maybe die out. I do worry about those who insist on fluency in a foreign language in the UK for their children as a way to preserve culture as this can be limiting if they don't have the ability to become truly bilingual. Those with poor English ability are likely to raise children in an environment where good quality English use is not prioritised and the foreign tongue will be used almost exclusively in a domestic setting.

Do you also apply that to British expats (immigrants in other countries). What do you think?

Brits around the world rely very much on their own language.
In Scandinavian a lot of Brits find it offensive that a lot of jobs go to native speakers and not to them.

A lot of with great English will have their native language as home language. That's is a common way to raise bilingual children.
The Brits use the same approach living abroad.

I think this is the same in more or less all countries. Before I left Scandinavian I translated at nursery and school for English speaking parents. The had been in Scandinavian for years.

Some people will never get to this level or it will take them 10+ years.

A lot of people pontificate about this but underestimate just how challenging it can be - it may not be a challenge for average Brits with a minimum of 13 years schooling - yet how many Brits pass A level MFL? but it is almost impossible for many people

• older people
• people with little or no formal schooling
• people where languages have totally different alphabets, structures and grammar etc

In many countries, people above a certain age are exempt.

Which countries want to take in uneducated people?

People with languages with different alphabets, structures and grammar cope. Often very well.

People with -verified- learning difficulties can often also be exempted.

The first two groups are irrelevant - they will not be eligible for the graduate, skilled worker, or scale-up visas that this requirement is planned for.

I disagree with the last point - I have colleagues from China, Finland, Greece, Ukraine and all of them have excellent English, despite their languages being vastly different from English.

Should we be issuing graduate, skilled worker and start-up visas to people with learning difficulties?