Why does Palestine bring out such strong feelings?

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I really don’t want this to become about individuals’ feelings about the conflict. There are plenty of threads for that.

I am interested in why Palestine provokes such a strong feelings about civilian in Britain. We didn’t see weekly marches and such intense, passionate feelings regarding any other conflicts over in, say, the past ten years (Yemen, Syria, Afghanistan, Sudan, Congo, Somalia, and, of course, Ukraine). These all involve thousands of civilian casualties caused by conflict.

What is it about Palestine in particular that causes British people to feel so passionately about it?

Someone said to me today that, for them, it was the most pressing political issue. They have never even mentioned any of the other conflicts above. It got me thinking about it. If you care greatly about what happens in Palestine, why Palestine and not the other conflicts?

Please don’t come on and say you care about them all. It might be true but there is no doubt that the reaction to what’s happening in Palestine in Britain is much greater than the rest, which barely cause a murmur.

War crimes.
What they have done is war crimes.
Named as such because, even in warfare, they are crimes.

They can all be looked at after the war ends like happened after WW2. With proper supporting evidence.

Are you denying that Israel has committed war crimes? There are many that have been looked at and documented.

We can only say that Israelis have committed war crimes if they are found guilty of committing war crimes by the appropriate court or tribunal. Not before.

The difference is, we don’t have to wait for history books to see what’s happening right now. There’s already a mountain of documented, verified evidence of civilian deaths, bombed hospitals, blockaded food and medicine, and destroyed homes.

Due process is vital. Otherwise it could just be called a witch hunt by anti semites.

The Chamber issued warrants of arrest for two individuals, Mr Benjamin Netanyahu and Mr Yoav Gallant, for crimes against humanity and war crimes committed from at least 8 October 2023 until at least 20 May 2024, the day the Prosecution filed the applications for warrants of arrest.

Bombing schools, hospitals, homes. Starving millions by blocking food, water, and medicine. Children killed while trying to reach aid. Officials openly calling to “erase” Gaza. UN, Amnesty, HRW, B’Tselem, and journalists have all documented it. Textbook war crimes.

That's not being found guilty. Innocent until proven guilty is a good thing to remember.

What is "The Chamber" by the way?

It's the ICC. International criminal court.

Thank you. There are many chambers.

As I said, due process is particularly important in this. No one is guilty until they are found guilty. It may be impossible for a fair trial.

But theres nobody defending the aggressors of those genocides on here, no one saying oh you're bringing up the Sudanese massacres you must be a racist, or you're protesting Saudi arms deals you're Islamaphobic. I mean there's alot to protest just in looking at the discourse, including the absolute dehumanisation of the Palestinians to the point there's many who believe they deserve it, and "virtue signalling" protesters should shut up about it.

Take a step back for a minute.

You used the example of David and Goliath. It might have been better to use a non-Biblical metaphor that didn’t reference one of the most famous Jews of all time, but in any case, some might see Israel surrounded by enemies and interpret the wider situation differently from you.

You then go to Holocaust inversion, again, not the best way of framing your argument - how about asking yourself why you hold Israel to a higher standard because of the Holocaust.

Then you start talking about ‘Jews’ - not Israelis or Israeli politicians, Jews - acknowledging their sin and so on.

If you can’t see that your posts can be interpreted as deeply offensive then I suggest you learn a bit more about antisemitic tropes and frame your arguments differently.

So you do think that if people were not antisemitic they would not care about the murdered children of Palestine.
And by logical extension you are therefore saying that if people liked Jews they would be happy to allow the carnage wrought by Israel to unfold. Or at worst they would wring their hands a bit and say ‘But Hamas’ and ‘Israel has the right to defend herself’
So people have to prove they don’t hate Jews by applauding the deaths of almost 20000 children ? Just not actually hating Jews or harbouring any ill feeling towards Jews whatsoever is not enough, we now have to wave away war crimes to prove it?

Alternatively we could use our eyes and brains

Or proper legal process.

Well said 👏🏻.

Utter rubbish. Marches supporting Palestine were organised on the very day of the terrorist attack in Israel. Israelis and their British friends and families were trying to find out if their loved ones were alive and free, and at the same time other British people were already organising to march in the streets to support Palestine. On that very day.

Except for this question of why people care more about Palestine than other conflicts. Would they care as much if it was Egypt and Palestine, or Syria and Palestine, or Jordan and Palestine? And if not, why not? And if so, why are other conflicts ignored?

If Jews were involved in any conflict with the countries you list, certain types of people would be all over it. If Jews weren't involved, not so much.

You obviously feel it’s about antisemitism. It’s a shame that you asked thoughtful questions, but have a predetermined answer, which limits the collaborative discussion about the thread. Antisemitism needs to be explored as part of the picture, and of course exists, but for you to draw the conclusion that is the main explanation for your question, when people have given very thoughtful answers, is a shame. I noticed you didn’t pick up on my last answer but singled out my support for pp’s point.

In some other conflicts, our government speaks out against atrocities against civilians. Why would people march for Ukraine when we know already that our government condemns Russian actions in the strongest terms?

In some, like Afghanistan, the citizens seem (sadly) to have chosen the Taliban- not all of them, but they were able to take over (again) with remarkable ease. Marching to "liberate" Afghanistan from a system that they've chosen themselves seems pointless.

Then there are wars which we're not really involved in (unless you go back to how our colonisation of the world has caused endless problems for whole continents that they are still trying to untangle, and which can't be solved by us continuing to wade in). The government isn't really taking sides on those.

In the Palestine/Israel conflict the government is directly supporting one side over the other and supplying arms and support- even as it becomes clear that one side has killed a lot more civilians and committed a lot more war crimes than the other.

The complicity of the government is a really significant part of people’s despair regarding Palestine.
There is dismay and disbelief that a government that is meant to represent liberal values and the rule of law is involved in aiding and abetting such flagrant breaches of international law and basic morality.
This is a significant part of the reason why Palestine marches have attracted so much support.

Anti semitic lies have been spread about Jews for centuries, these are simply a new variant. The people who spread them are either ignorant of the facts or are motivated by something much darker.

I think it is antisemitism, yes. But I don’t think it’s conscious antisemitism for many people. I think many are simply useful idiots who genuinely believe they are defending the underdog.

I think it is a fascinating example of how even well educated, socially aware people can be taken in by propaganda. I think Hamas have ran an exceptional campaign via TikTok and other social media and have also received support from people who probably aren’t antisemitic, or didn’t used to be, but encouraged by Hamas and dyed in the wool antisemites they now feel passionately about a subject about which they know very little. They are now convinced Israel are the ‘baddies’.

Why aren’t they questioning why they feel passionately about Palestine but no other conflict? Do they just not think, or are they now antisemitic? Or is there another reason?

And the history of the left must be taken into account, because that is where Palestinian support is coming from. I am left wing, and have been horrified watching how many of my colleagues have been spouting antisemitism (which they deny) in recent years. It is a huge problem on the left and has been since at least the days of Marx and that attitude where, to be a good anti-capitalist, you must denounce the ‘Rothschilds who run the world’ continues today. Do they know they’re being antisemitic? Probably not in a lot of cases, but they are.

Add in the left’s desire to be anti-colonialist and anti-imperialist and being a good proper socialist equals being antisemitic. Circles become echo chambers and, in their minds, they’re not being racist, just righteous.

And then there are the good old fifth columnists. Anything to bash Britain and the west. This awful country that provides you with rights, healthcare, education, freedom etc. They are the ones siding with Russia a couple of years ago. The Greta’s of the world who will sail near to Palestine knowing that there is no danger of Hamas getting their hands on them because they know Israel, who they so despise, will intervene and keep them safe.

That is what I think. It is interesting to hear what others have to say.