Another example of why Reform are doing so well

[Touchtheskies]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15142311/amp/Taliban-commanders-nephew-asylum-SEVEN-family-members.html

I think it makes a very big difference. Rich white collar criminals or people working in well-paid but damaging industries (eg Denise Coates) might contribute a lot financially but make society significantly worse, and there are plenty of people who don’t contribute much financially but do other things like caring, volunteering, creating art etc that contribute to our society. My point is that I don’t think the risk that a refugee is a net recipient is a valid reason to refuse refugees, especially considering that most people are net recipients themselves.

I’m not proposing anything, it’s just what I think will happen realistically. I don’t think they can move the state pension age much further so limiting who gets it is the only other thing they can do. Other than significantly raising taxes I suppose but I thought that would be even more unpalatable to most politicians!

They get moaned at for that too. Poorer pensioners on another thread were vilified for claiming Pension Credit and living in social housing.

🙄

Could you explain?

The more relevant comparison is to the aid budget. That’s where we spend money altruistically to improve the lives of foreigners who have been dealt a really shit hand in life through no fault of their own.

Also while asylum seekers are still in the processing stage the funds directly trade off against one another.

That calculation pushes me heavily against expanding asylum other than for those we have a specific responsibility for.

Because the cost to save a life through effective aid interventions (and the UK has one of the best/most evidence-driven programmes) is about £4k.

The cost of a year of typical asylum seeker costs is £30-40k.

Absent any specific personal obligation, I can’t see any justification for spending eight lives every single year on each asylum applicant.

Added to that that it’s unpopular (which has to matter in a democracy) and turns people against all forms of migration (which is generally a positive force, at least done right).

Where do you think I’ve gone wrong in my thinking on this?

These stories do not help. This was talked about on LBC today. The whole system in a joke. That’s the problem.

I don’t disagree there are very cheap ways to save lives and that we have an ethical obligation to do so if we can ie bed nets, vaccinations etc. However, I see helping refugees who are fleeing from our enemies is a defence cost, rather than an aid one. Ultimately if people can’t escape they may defect to the Taliban in order to keep their lives.

I’d also be in favour of speeding up the asylum process. And not spending so much on schemes doomed to failure, and the associated legal costs. The problem is that speeding it up needs some investment upfront, which isn’t currently feasible, so we’ll have to pay for those nine stitches we could have saved. (And the same in many other areas of government spending, but that’s another thread!)

I am becoming increasingly dismayed at the vitriol aimed at pensioners on Mumsnet. Obviously tired of targeting the sick and disabled,senior citizens are next in line for their venom.

Hi. Did you read all my posts? There was no vitriol 😊

No

Reform will get elected by those that vote for them, and no one else. Those reform voters will be entirely responsible.

This caveat of “oh look you made everyone vote reform” is both a cop out and it’s lazy. We have to accept, both on the left and right that there will be people strongly against our povs.

To say “oh this is why reform got in” is imo, lazy and blame shifting. If the type of govt you want is what Farage offers: own it!

I doubt that many that will vote for him understand what it truly might entail- for us all.

What an absolutely disgusting remark. I’m pro immigration- you’re really not helping the cause by saying things like this and you don’t speak for me.

You’re looking in the wrong direction again. These people - if they even exist in any way comparable to what the Daily Mail claims - aren’t the ones messing up the country or working the system or whatever other terminology you’ve swallowed pedalled by the people who want us to be fighting amongst ourselves. The people who’ve fucked the country over are Farage and his reform twats - remember Brexit? Remember the 350million for the nhs?
The same people who shagged the country over for Brexit are now talking the same bollocks for reform. He’s a multi-millionaire. Why do you think he cares about anything other than lining his own pocket? He won’t be content until he’s milked the country dry and then he’ll go off into the sunsets on his dual passport and sit on his bloody pile of wealth like Smaug.
While we’re all on her squabbling about a made-up story in a cesspit of a historically fascist newspaper and worrying about flags (does it ever cross anyone’s mind who and how they were all coordinated? It wasn’t by individual Joe Bloggs from the corner that’s for sure) the greedy people with an eye for the main chance are quietly planning and lining their own pockets.
it frightens me that so many people just swallow any old shite that they get fed by Rupert ‘man of the people’ Murdoch and the rest of the billionaires. Ffs.

Did you read the article? His parents could be pensioners - both housebound and diabetic.. pretty costly. Or is your vitriol only for British pensioners?

Hi @JamDisaster @Didntask please RTFT before accusing me of being anti-pensioner, thanks. I am not anti-pensioner, my point was about the hypocrisy.

Labour closed this option a few weeks ago. This is a legacy case from before this. So everyone is agreed this is wrong and has been solved. To continue to support reform is to prefer anecdote to data

I've read the full thread. You seem to think that pensioners are a 'drain on the system'. That's pretty shitty. Any other demographic you could've used as an example instead?

Reform aren't 'doing well'. They have 5 MPs. They need another 321 to form a government, and the next general election won't be for 5 years.

Hopefully, by then, the majority of the electorate will have woken up to the fact that Reform have no actual plan, just a load of populist bullshit statements.

It’s incredibly depressing that people hear about a teenager who was stabbed by his own family members for resisting becoming a terrorist and think ‘nah couldn’t possibly risk spending public money on helping him escape that’

And the evidence for this alleged attack is where exactly, @yonem?

I've mentioned this on here before, but I once went for an interview at a local "legal advice centre" which turned out to be purely an asylum seekers' support service (they proudly admitted that they'd lied to get the funding)

After listening to tthe usual recital of hard luck stories I asked them that same question and got a 1000 yard stare when their mentalities clearly couldn't cope with the concept

I've wiped many a pensioner's backside and done with care and caution. Everyone of them were a resident ina care home and on top of the fees they also had to pay for council tax.

Reform want to dismantle the NHS to a system that is like the USA. You are all ready for that?

The DM will always dredge up some exceptional case to spark exactly this kind of outrage. No matter what the issue of the day is. A few migrants the DM considers undeserving isn’t why this country is on its knees 🤷‍♀️

Absolutely.

Early term poll indications does not equate to an election victory, certainly not yet.

After Brexit, I thought this lot were all about democracy; we certainly heard a lot of “we won you lost now shut up” at the time.

Labour won last years election. I didn’t vote for them btw.

The next election is in 4 years time.

Now if they truly believe in democracy..

Cant you all stop whining for a minute? Whining was unacceptable from those opposed to eg Johnson or Brexit; we all just had to suck it up.

Ps Farage doesn’t give a monkeys about you, or I. He cares for himself, and his murky oligarch backers.

I said quite clearly several times that most people are net recipients. It’s just easiest to do that calculation for people who have finished their contributions. Nor do I think that being a net recipient is particularly a problem, so long as there’s sufficient tax take from elsewhere.

@Puzzledandpissedoff it’s mentioned in the article that he was stabbed by his cousins.

I read today about another one who despite having a criminal record for domestic abuse against 5 different women has dodged deportation because he’s got a son here.

these people are laughing at us.

Yeah, I meant 4 years, not 5.

Brexshit should have been the wake up call about Farage, but they still don't seem to be able to spot a fake 🤦‍♂️