No jobs for student nurses?

[EachandEveryone]

Have you experienced this? I can’t quote facts and figures I’m just hearing it from the horses mouth. I’m on the oncology ward being treated for the past two years. I am a nurse for twenty five years. I cannot believe the junior nurses or students qualifying that they can’t get the jobs they have trained for because the trusts have no vacancies as they’ve over employed from elsewhere spending millions. They got their numbers wrong, one fantastic student told me two thousand nurses qualify a year in London alone and there is nothing only bank. When I qualified we had the pick of jobs everyone wanted us. I feel so sad it’s such a waste.

like I said I know nothing outside of what I’m hearing on the wards I’m getting my excellent care from.

has anyone got any newly qualified nurses in their family? Is it better outside London?

Oh yes my nurse spoke beautiful English, she was actually a very quiet woman but I think that was her personality. I have an elderly relative in a dementia care home and lots of staff from the Philippines and lots very jolly and chatty. She gets such good care, lots of it very caring, for example I visited one day and she got very agitated and carer came in and asked me move back, she sat by the bed and gave my relative a hand and arm massage while talking very quietly to her. When she was satisfied aunt was OK she just stood up, told me it was all ok and we had a nice visit. You could see what a gentle caring woman she was.

Aunt now completely bed bound on end of life care. After nearly ten years not a sign of a bed sore and she has outlived all predictions of her life expectancy, such good care.

My friend applied for his perfect job last week only to get an email today to say it had gone internally. Why do they do that?

Yes im pretty sure nurses don't even have to be able to perform a blood test to qualify. They might do that as part of their post grad if they need to. They learn very little compared to student midwives for instance. I am not sure why.

I remember from my training we then had to do out of maternity placements in nursing. It was all very handmaiden of the doctor, waiting to be told what to do kind of thing. Midwives lead care and work in collaboration with obstetricians. Not under them. As a 2nd year student at that point, id never have dreamed of waiting for the doctors to say what to do. They're waiting for you to tell them what is what so they can do their bit!

This sounds like rubbish. Any one will tell you that a bunch of NQ English nurses are not going to know as much as foreign graduates with working experience.

It's not rubbish, I've seen it with my own eyes. At my previous hospital where I used to work we had one overseas member of staff on the ward where I worked who was supernumerary for a whole year and then their contract wasn't renewed. They were never deemed safe enough to be left on their own!

So one nurse? Have you ever looked at the NMC hearings? The vast, vast majority who are struck off are English nurses. Especially for absolutely shocking misconduct. I mean... Lucy Letby.... English nurses are inferior to foreign nurses and it is only getting worse as the type of student that studies nursing is changing to insufferable, entitled little madams and a few Misters.

No not just one nurse, one at my last hospital on the ward where I worked. My previous post which you quoted talked about the recent intake of 30 recruits at my now local hospital (different one), the majority of which are still floundering and needing more support and supernumerary time than any NQ would.

Of course some overseas nurses are amazing but it's a fact they do on average need more support and supernumerary time just because things can be so different here to what they're used to depending where they have come from. How much supernumerary time does the average NQ get these days - 2 weeks after a Trust induction? Do you think an overseas nurse can get their heads round stuff like NICE guidelines, usual ways of practice in a new to them country in 2 weeks? Different scope of practice, different drug administration rules, etc. A UK student nurse will have spent 3 years doing placement in the system.

I'm not saying they are bad at their job, but just that the transition will require more time before they're up and running. Average is 12 weeks for an overseas nurse I believe. Plus they're more likely to leave within a year. NHS International Retention Toolkit talks about the high turnover.

You seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about UK trained nurses - sweeping statement much of calling them entitled little madams. Judgemental much?

And have I ever been to an NMC hearing? I used to be a panel member! I've been to plenty! Lets just say I have a different opinion from you on the demographics

Yes i do and better than most English nurses too.

We know there is a racism problem where white nurses aren't brought up before the NMC for similar charges to non-white nurses. But these are all British trained. Where you confusing English/British with white?

Who is British trained? People before the NMC panels? No they're not - not all of them! They just need to be NMC registered.

So no I'm not at all confusing British with being white. Seeing as I'm British and not white.

But yes, I totally agree there's a racism issue within both the NMC affecting handling of referrals and also within the NHS affecting the likelihood of being referred.

I do wonder if you're confusing "overseas" with being non white though? I haven't mentioned race, just place of training. The overseas individual I was thinking of who was supernumerary for 12 months was white/European, just hadn't trained in the UK.

The vast majority were Britidh trained, says so on their hearing.

Well of course from a pure numbers pov the majority will be uk trained, because the majority of nurses in the country are UK trained. You have to look at things from a proportion perspective.

The evidence shows that an overseas trained nurse makes up 4.4% of referrals but only 1.9% of registrants and that even when you take away other variables such as race and overseas trained nurse is more like to be referred to the nmc than a uk trained nurse. So yes, while im sure theres an issue with racism meaning registrants from certain ethnicities are more likely to be referred the evidence shows a black overseas nurse is more likely to be referred than a black U.K. trained nurse. It might be that it’s a deeper from of prejudice and bias against overseas nurses.

However my original point wasn’t about nmc hearings it was about how on average an overseas nurse needs more support and supernumerary time than a U.K. trained nurse when first starting work. Thats a fact. You might not like it but it’s true…..that’s not being disparaging about overseas nurses but recognising they potentially come from a different system and have different knowledge.

If you’re a nurse (I suspect you are with your comment about how you do better than English nurses) I suggest you have a refresh of the NMC code and think about your professional values. Talking so disparagingly about your colleagues and calling them entitled little madams is not particularly professional and nor is it conducive to good team work. If I was your line manager and heard you talking in such a way I’d be having serious words with you.

Everyone in my cohort of OTs last year got jobs.