Help me settle an argument about carbs!

[CelestialFilly]

Someone I know holds the opinion that those higher up the class/affluence ladder don't tend to consume basic carbs. Basically he thinks it's all expensive protein and veg only. He is referring to the upper classes not the middle.

I strongly disagree, as in my own experience this simply isn't so. I am neatly in the middle/middle income and have witnessed people enjoying buttery mash, pasta and white bread from all walks of life.

I know that carbs are often cheap and plentiful and have bolstered generations of people through struggle and hunger for centuries, but I still believe they are an essential nutrient that no one excludes unless managing a health condition or dieting.

For example, my work brings me into contact with a broad range of people, and bangers & mash, flatbreads, pizza, seasoned potatoes and fancy white bread feature on plenty high end plates up and down the country, including boarding school menu's, etc.

My own impression is that the 'quality' shoots higher, diets are more diverse and portions are smaller, but the carbs are still most definitely there.

People need to eat a couple of thousand calories per day. If they don't get those from carbohydrate, where can they get them from? From oils or fats, although excess protein can also be turned into calories.

Eating protein and veg would not be advisable. I know the Atkins diet is high in meat, fish, eggs and cheese, but these contain fat as well as protein. I expect he's talking about animal protein, not plant protein. Beans, peas and lentils contain lots of carbohydrate.

Who does he mean by upper classes? The aristocracy aren't particularly well informed about food choices. He may be thinking of a type of person who is seen out jogging or cycling on their way to a high-powered business meeting.

People around the world have usually got most of their calories from the local grain. In southern Italy they grew durum wheat so they ate pasta. In northern Italy they grew maize and rice so they ate polenta and risotto. Over centuries they developed ways to make them taste delicious.

Affluent people in Britain will often eat traditional foods from Italy, Spain, Greece etc. Which is a good thing because they taste lovely and are relatively healthy to eat. It can be a cheap way of eating too, although that doesn't interest them; they are more interested in looking sophisticated and cosmopolitan.

I think he is referring to carbs being 'cheap' and plentiful, so more affluent people avoid them as can afford 'better'.

I know life doesn't work quite like that, as many cheap and cheerful foods are super healthy (carrots!).

My argument was that upper middle/upper class or affluent people's tastes aren't synonymous with exclusion diets, and that anyone from any background might delight in a cream cheese bagel

He's not wrong, poor people in this country consume a much higher percentage of UPF and these are very likely to be carbs: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9257471/
But you are also right, home cooked unprocessed or lightly processed carbs are part of almost everyones diet. It is the amount and type of carb v veg and protein that is often different, due to the insane costs of fresh unprocessed foods.

I think it's probably true that the all protein and veg doets are more likely to be adopted by wealthier people, but I really don't think all upset class people eat like that. And does he/you mean class or wealth?

I do think he is stressing carbs, not UPF.
Just regular carbs, such as sourdough, pasta, potatoes.

I have honestly seen all consumed at every wealth/class bracket. Differently, but still consumed.

Example; game, potatoes and asparagus.
Pasta al Limone, Halloumi and vegetable wraps, burger brioche, Spanish frittata..

We were discussing exclusion diets and the subject arose from that. Due to examples he gave I am assuming upper middle class+, really. Class with wealth.

I haven't read this study through from beginning to end so correct me if I'm wrong but it is about America not Britain. It is showing that poor people eat more UPF but it doesn't say that UPF is higher in carbohydrate. It says UPF tends to be higher in refined carbohydrate and/or fats. That will depend on what you're comparing it to; I'm old enough to remember when British people ate more bread and potatoes than they do today.

Someone can go into almost any supermarket and buy a kilo of rice or a kilo of pasta for not much more than 50p. If they get most of their calories from these they will be saving money because they are cheaper than UPFs. I don't accept the idea that poor people eat UPFs because they can't afford anything better. It's not factual and it isn't helping poor people to say that.

I always imagined aristocratic men had very basic taste in food. Nanny's cooking, dinners at boarding school. So pies, bangers and mash, roasts, puddings and crumbles with custard etc. British food without much spice or international influence.

I imagine the women to be very restrictive and therefore probably eat less carbs and fat. Like a kind of ladies who lunch culture. Pushing a salad around. Having asparagus and and truffle and caviar on things?

I guess they can afford loads of fancy protein like game, lobster, fillet steak etc. whereas normal people probably eat less meat primarily for financial reasons.

I tend to agree with this although I am no expert!

I see a good deal of exclusion and cult-like diets online, much of it connected to identity politics and as a desire to manage weight loss.

In my own experience, those with higher education and privilege tend not to become quite as tied up in these food war scenarios.

So maybe a cultural confidence in choices they have eaten all their lives, whether that's toad in the hole or veal and asparagus. They don't seem to pull their hair out about macro's as much.

Just to add - I do NOT think higher class people have superior habits to poorer people. I am just interested in how people in average became so odd about carbs.

Yeah, mine is just a pure guess! I only know MC or WC people really.

Has he seen the price of sourdough

He's talking complete bollocks. It is absolutely true that lots of rich/"upper class" people have 100% jumped on the low carbs bandwagon as a health thing, but they're not cutting carbs because they're cheap and therefore not okay. And the men and children and lot sof the women are, of course, still eating carbs.

Where I assume thse people may naturally eat less is on the basis they're not filing up with carbs - they can afford the huge steak and a few baby potatoes and a big salad with expensive ingredients, vs other families where we're stingy on steak and filling up with other things.

They may also well be buying higher quality and more expensive carbs - fancy fresh pasta, artisan bread, organic brown rice etc.

I have worked with a lot of posh people over the years and it's definitely true that they are not excited abotu fast food/street food. If they eat pizza, it's in some over priced Napolitan restaurant where a pizza is £19 for a margarita. They eat sandwiches, but from fancy delis made with handmade sourdough topped with smoked salmon etc etc etc.

I remember reading an article about 20 years ago in a sort of posh lifestyle magazine and it was saying "10 things you really don't have ot make yourself when hosting a dinner party anymore" and one of the things was bread. which made me laugh. I'd never made bread for a dinner party in my life - I'm solidly middle class and buy fancy bread for fancy events, not make it!

The richest people I know eat an excessive amount of carbs. Lots of donuts, sourdough bread, cakes, potatoes.

I suspect they are eating much tastier and probably less processed versions of a lot of these carbs which makes a huge difference at least.

I agree. A trolley full of carbs (bread, rice, pasta,bread, potatoes ) are a hell of a lot cheaper than a trolley full of protein. It's expensive to eat a healthy diet.

Krispy Kreme donuts are their favourite !

Yes the impression I have is that they approach portion sizes much differently, not having to use basic carbs for bulk reasons. This will likely lead to less food related stress and overthinking in general. Habits learned young, etc.

I was looking at a friend's DD's senior boarding menu a while ago and what struck me most was the diversity. Everything was covered in a rather genius way. No exclusions (discounting allergies and vegetarian/vegan) and a really broad range of traditional, multicultural and contemporary meals. The sweet treats were to die for. Lucky girls!

I don't think upper class people are leaning into a keto/carnivore diet.

I think it's a bit blinkered to presume more affluent people avoid carbs. The high protein low carb trends seem much more prevalent via grass roots, internet amongst the average income (working to middle, ie most of us) classes.

Just for ref, a typical British boarding menu, complete with carbs:

There is nothing fancy or very expensive on that menu, it’s bulk catering for kids regardless of the type of school. Who knows what the quality of the beef is in the chilli, I doubt its 5% steak mince. People in lower socio economic groups will fill up on carbs. DH loves carbs but is as thin as a whip, I’m careful and low carb it a bit because I do not want to get overweight and it’s the easiest way to maintain my weight. DH went to a very expensive private school, apparently the new head of catering one year spent the entire annual budget for food in one term and the food was amazing.

There is nothing fancy or very expensive on that menu,

That was my point, it's varied, balanced and full of carbs
I would enjoy it. Probably has a salad bar too.

People assume that carbohydrates if they are cheap must be unhealthy. Rice and pasta are not unhealthy. They are minimally processed and definitely not UPF. Potatoes are not unhealthy. Sliced white bread I agree isn't particularly healthy but healthier than Krispy Kreme donuts.

Eating lots of chicken, pork and beef isn't particularly healthy. Healthier would be to get your protein from pulses. All the pulses are cheaper than meat, with yellow split peas cheaper than other pulses.

I know there will be some people who will say that white rice is the cheaper unhealthier version of brown rice, but it is actually a cheaper healthier alternative to Krispy Kreme donuts or other UPFs.

Well I can only speak from my own experience, which is that when I cut out most carbs 25 years ago(bread,potatoes,rice,pasta etc ), my health dramatically improved. Not only did I lose weight, but my cholesterol levels went down and I had a lot more energy.

I hate it when people use the word "carbs". Carbohydrates are not all the same. There's a world of difference between starch on the one hand, and sugar, glucose syrup, high fructose corn syrup and modified starches on the other hand. By all means cut these things out of your diet, things that are found in UPFs.

If you cut out all carbohydrates you will become dependent of fats and oils for your energy. You will go into ketosis. Some people want that but it's an extreme way of eating and unnecessary because you can achieve weight loss and improved health without it.

Well I tried the way that you suggest and I can honestly tell you it didn't work for me, but we are all built differently so it may work for others.

I can categorically tell you that I have so much more energy eating the way I do. I work out every day (running, ballet barre, pilates) as well as walking my two boisterous labradors three times a day. I have been doing this for over a 20 years and have never felt better. So I shall continue my low carb lifestyle despite your comments.