Elderly mum falling victim to scams

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I need some advice about my mum. She’s late 60s and not very tech savvy. She has fallen victim to a phone scam before (gave her card details to someone saying they were from Sky) and recently she’s having problems with online scams. The source of these seems to be Instagram.

She scrolls through the short videos and constantly clicks on the scam AI videos that impersonate celebrities advertising fake products. She saw a scam ad about weight loss pills supposedly advertised by Oprah Winfrey and typed in her card details thinking she was ordering them. My dad realised and thankfully stopped the scam in time. She had to freeze and order a new bank card.

Yesterday, despite repeated warnings not to click on anything or give any details, she clicked on an Instagram video of AI Martin Lewis advertising an investment opportunity. A woman phoned her and was talking through steps about filling in a form with all her bank details and personal info. She said the woman sent her a form and she filled it in. My dad became aware of the call, told her to hang up but she refused and went upstairs with her bank card. She became suspicious when the woman started being pushy and rushing her. My mum said she wanted to check with her daughter and the scammer said ‘no, you have to do this yourself’. She’s told me that after this, she deleted all the info without submitting it and hung up. The woman kept calling back but eventually gave up when my mum didn’t answer.

I’m very worried about her behaviour online recently. She won’t listen to me or my dad. It’s only a matter of time before she loses a lot of money. My parents’ account has a substantial amount in at the moment as they are soon having building work done and plan to use it for that. I tried to persuade her to delete Instagram but she won’t let me because she likes seeing family photos on there. She’s had to cancel her bank card yet again.

Does anyone have any advice on what to do because I’m at my wit’s end with this. I only ever find out when she calls me afterwards and tells me about it and even then I have to ask a lot of questions before she’s honest. How can I get through to her that these ads are scams? The algorithm is sending her more too as she keeps clicking on them.

If she’s refusing to listen to you and this behaviour is escalating, then maybe you should be prepared for this being a symptom of something slightly more serious. I know everyone jumps to the conclusion of dementia once you hit 50, but there are some things you’ve said that sound very familiar to me and I think you might want to keep an eye on it.

If you’re happy it’s not a sign of decline and she’s not listening to you then I think you’ve got to treat her like a child and tell her that all joint funds are being moved to your dad’s account because she can’t be trusted not to lose it, or be sneaky. Guilt trip her and tell her that if she wants to wave goodbye to her own money because she’s unable to recognise a scam, then that’s her choice, but you’re going to ensure that her poor choices don’t affect your dad.

Is there a scam awareness course you could do with her? Or would that just give her misplaced confidence?

I have educated my parents and my inlaws about scams but they both repeatedly ignore me and DH and do as they please and have all been scammed more than once over the years.

They don't all 4 have dementia, so I know that's not the issue.

There isn't much you can do, honestly. If you learn otherwise, I'd be interested.

Presumably your parents have a joint account? Can your dad move the bulk of savings to another account she doesn’t have access to? Obviously anything she’s earning or claiming he cannot control, but hopefully it will limit her access to the life savings that she’s putting at risk. I’d arrange a full on family intervention if she’s likely to disagree

Does anyone have a POA (for finance) for her? Would she agree to one?

If I was your dad I’d give her a one of those pre-paid bank cards and remove her access to any other money. Her behaviour is wild.

If it is a joint account that the substantial sum of money for building work is held in then in the first instance I would suggest your dad moves the money to an account under his sole control ASAP.

Where does she get her funds from and which accounts does she have access to? You need to see if / how you can limit both of these in the first instance. Obviously she is an adult and notwithstanding any medical diagnoses should have control of her own funds, but if she's taking money out of joint accounts then that can be stopped.

Next I would talk to the bank to see if there is any way they can help. Have a look at the Vulnerable Victims Notification protocols and see if they can be applied to her via the bank.

If she likes Instagram for family photos, then the family needs to start sending them to her a different way so she's not tempted to go into the app. I'd suggest trying to put parental controls on her phone, if she's not tech savvy, but ultimately she's a grown woman.

I am guessing from her actions that seeing a GP or putting an LPA in place is not going to be an option?

I'd say you need to maybe take most of the money out of the account she has access to, and move it into savings or another account controlled by your dad? It seems harsh as you don't want to feel like you're taking away people's freedom. But in this case it does sound like she'll keep doing it.

If her behaviour in general around decision making and money has changed a lot recently it might be worth trying to get her to see the GP.

Pending any kind of LPA or other intervention, you can't just take someone's income and bank accounts off them. Potentially she has pension income or savings in her sole name and you can't just take these off someone at will.

I’d assume she’s going to do it at some point so make sure there’s only minimal cash in that account and move everything else

Late 60s is elderly but we work till we’re 67?

If your Mum presents as elderly as well as this scamming victim behaviour, I would be speaking to her GP. Late 60s is really not elderly.

Yes it’s a joint account. Neither of them have any other current account but they do have a savings account that’s not linked.

I don’t feel I have the right to limit access to her own money so it’s difficult. She’s receiving a pension. She’s always been quite naive and trusting. She doesn’t work any more but she used to do voluntary work for years. Since giving that up last year she’s not been as sharp. She often forgets words and just stays at home watching TV. I have been encouraging her to visit the GP for a health checkup (she’s been having other issues to do with her bladder) but she refuses to go.

I think I’ll talk to my dad about moving the building work money to another savings account. He is fed up as she has form for giving money to family members without asking him. It’s both of their money so this isn’t right.

When I asked my mum what the scammer was saying, she said she was asking her whether she worked, how much total savings she had etc. It made me so angry. The only reason the scam wasn’t successful is because my mum couldn’t work out how to use the website they’d sent her and the scammer blew cover by being too pushy.

This is very worrying OP, because your DM isn't very old. When I saw your post about your 'elderly DM' I thought you'd be talking about someone much older. My DM is ten years older and would never do anything as daft as this, even though she's not very tech-savvy. I think you and your DF need to get your DM to the GP somehow for some cognitive tests. Call the GP up and see if there is a way for the GP to call her in for something else and get the ball rolling.

Our local library run free IT courses which include how to avoid online scams. So do Age UK in certain areas.
She might be willing to listen to external sources than to family. My elderly mum, much as I loved her, could perceive family advice as personal criticism but would listen to someone she believed had “authority “.

Absolutely this - I thought you were going to say she was at least 80.

I am concerned now that perhaps something else is going on. The strange things is that she should be aware of all this. About 4 years ago, she did an online digital skills course run by a local adult college. She completed the modules, some of which were about online safety, but refused to do the final exam so didn’t get the qualification.

She also used to watch shows like Scam Interceptors on the BBC so I have no idea why she’s still falling for these scams. It’s like she loses her senses temporarily. She even said that to me - ‘I came to my senses and hung up’.

The challenge will be getting her to a GP. She would probably be offended if I suggested she needs cognitive tests.

If your dad can be trusted, really trusted, not to screw here over or abuse her then he needs to move the money into an account with just his name. She needs to only have access to an account with a small amount of money in it each week or month. So that she cannot give her details of an account with any real money in it.

It’s what we had to do for my Gran when she started going this way. My mum and her siblings took control of the finances (power of attorney had been set up long before though so it was all legal), but they all had just my gran’s interests at heart. No one took advantage and no one would. You have to really know that your dad will look after her and not abuse her or leave her short of money.

I'm in my late 60s and this sounds very off.
This is going to sound daft but you mentioned bladder issues. Is she drinking enough water because it's well known that the cognitive ability of older people can be affected by dehydration. I could tell if my dad was dehydrated because he'd act differently. I told you it would sound daft but it really isn't.

Surely she has enough self awareness to know that she's susceptible to scams? I'm mid 60's and constantly aware that I need to check and double check all websites before I order anything and I wouldn't EVER buy something just because a 'celebrity' is advertising it. Have you tried asking her why she feels she needs these things? Why, for example, did she feel she needed to 'invest' in something that the fake Martin Lewis was advertising? They clearly have money, so what was she hoping for? A big investment to pass on to you?

I think you might need to ask her to run any purchases past someone else first. It's infantilising and she's going to be annoyed, but given her track record, surely she can SEE the need to get someone else to just check out any purchases before she makes them, to verify it's real? I sometimes ask one of my kids, if I'm concerned or want to buy something from somewhere unfamiliar, just to look over my order to make sure I've done it right (but really so they can shout "MOTHER!" at me if it's an obvious scam. I'm pretty tech savvy but I'm wary that my age makes me more susceptible.

These scams make me sick. People almost always offshore trying to STEAL people's money. I had a call myself last year whereby I told the scammer that his parents would be ashamed of him for doing what he was doing and put the phone down.

The bugger called me back to say he was an honest guy...

As others say move into a joint account and tell the bank so that they can put further security on anything that she does.

Gosh she’s very young to be considered elderly or not very tech savvy. My parents are mid 60s and while everyone is different, I think she’s showing signs of some kind of medical decline. Sorry! I think it’s on your dad to make some more secure financial arrangements. You’re right to worry about what she’s going to end up doing having access to all their money.

I’d still do it. I wouldn’t just sit there while my wife gave all our money to scammers. I’d assume that there was something wrong with her and I’d step in. If my wife was spending all of her money on tropical fish or something that would be different. But joint money on scammers…no.

This.

she needs access to a bank card with a fairly low limit of funds eg. £100 max and no overdraft so the most she will lose is £100.

i would also be tempted to say if she loses the £100 to a scam then the limit will be lowered to £50 and then again after that scam

Doing this with her own money - her pension - is financial abuse, and a crime. OP's dad can try and disentangle their money as much as possible, but she can't make it so that means he is the only one who can access both of their money.

Hopefully she would fully agree since she must realise by now she keeps putting their money at great risk willy nilly. She should agree it’s for the best, surely. She can still make transactions in supermarkets, shops etc but to sit there in front of her phone or computer continuing this madness doesn’t just affect her own financial safety. She and the husband need some frank conversations concerning this risky habit and a GP appointment.

I agree that this needs to come from her husband, with maybe you there to gently back him up, but not to seem like your ganging up on her!. It sounds like there is something more going on though