Need a handhold don't know what to do anymore (long post sorry)

[AngelicAbout]

Apologies for posting again, I don't know where the best place to post is to get traffic or even a handheld. Sorry for the long post. I've copied and pasted from my previous post but added more on, I wanted to include all the history and background.

My son briefly dated a woman for a few months and ended up having grandson (16, 17 at the end of the month). His mum was his resident parent until he was about 11, there's a long backstory but she chose a man over him/her other children (son isn't the father of his siblings). He also came out around this time and his mum tried to guilt trip him. My son had full custody of him from then. He hasn't seen his mum in year's but she does send the occasional message although I don't think he replies to her most the time.

2 years ago my son moved grandson up here with him, son is autistic and has mental health issues himself and was quite lonely down in their previous area and was struggling with grandson and his school refusal at his old school anyway.

They moved here summer 2023, they were living with myself and my husband (our relationship isn't the best and he goes away for weeks sometimes months at a time) and grandson started Y10 at his new school that September. From the off we had issues with him refusing to go, he hated it, had no friends etc and was angry at my son for moving him away from his friends. Son promised he could move back down south for him to start college in their old area (I'm not sure why he said this as I don't think this was the plan!

After a few months we had the education welfare team out many times, he was very behind at school and they weren't sure he’d catch up. They figured out he was working at a year 8 level, no sen although I do think he is autistic like my son but he gets defensive and says he isn't. We got him a tutor over zoom and he was still on the school roll. It was 2 hours a day and the plan was to continue with the tutor but slowly work up to him being in full time school. This never happened, he went in for a few hours but he started refusing again and also refused to engage with the tutor. He would lie and say it had been cancelled etc.
This year he was due to sit his GCSEs but that didn't happen, he's agreed to go to college and sit them but that doesn't look likely. He's fixated on what my son said 2 years ago about moving back down south (we’re in Manchester) for college. Anyway that's the education aspect. My son ended up moving out and grandson stayed living here.

Grandsons behaviour is awful, he barely leaves his room, his sleep schedule is all over the place, he sleeps all day and is awake all night playing games and on discord calls to people in America etc. He self harms and has threatened suicide but I don't know if he's serious or trying to be manipulative, drinks/smokes weed. He likes cooking but doesn't tidy up after himself. He shouts at me for simple things such as putting a t-shirt of his in the dryer, putting his clothes away in his drawer to try and be helpful. Calls me an old bitch and other things. He doesn't eat during the day he cooks at night. Manipulated my son into giving him money for a new PC as he broke his previous one by spilling juice on it. He then got a virus on the new PC within a few days. Last Christmas he lied to my son about me taking his Christmas money
My son might be evicted so will more than likely move back in and he's not happy at all, that's when he threatened suicide (again), told me I shouldn't give him money when he asks (it's not up to grandson though!), said his dad ignores him and only messages when he wants something which isn't true he tries to make an effort but grandson ignores his messages. He does message grandson if I haven't replied to ask if I'm awake/ask him to get me to call him etc but he does message other times too.

Sorry this post is so long. I've tried getting Camhs involved but the wait list is long and probably will turn 18 before we get an appointment and I doubt he'd engage anyway. School tried to get him to talk to the school counsellor but wouldn't
I called the GP the other day but due to his age they wouldn't talk to me without his consent and told me to take him to A&E or call 111 if I thought he was in crisis.

I'm concerned about his sleep, his eating (he only eats once a day which is during the night when I'm asleep, he either cooks a random mismatch of food or just snacks on things). I was advised to take him to college on Thursday when enrolment opened and talk to them about a course I thought was suitable, on Wednesday he agreed sort of he said “whatever”, then went out and smoked weed, got back and slept from about 3pm. Woke up at some point whilst I was asleep as he does. I tried to get him to go to the college but he said he felt sick as he'd eaten a whole trifle, he peeled the lid off so if he didn't finish it, it wouldv been wasted so “forced” himself. I left him to it and tried again yesterday but he fully refused and kicked off, swore at both me and his dad, threatened suicide and then changed the subject about him not wanting his dad to move back in

Yesterday, we had a good day. He seemed in a good mood and we went shopping although he was texting on discord the whole time but he was calm and actually went out with me which is rare these days. He pointed out things he wants for his birthday (next week) and it was nice. Then we got home and he kicked off about me going in his room and seeing what was on his PC. I'm honestly not sure what it was, it was sort of a comic style but porn essentially. All I saw was a naked man (it was a drawing/animation) and he noticed I was there and closed the tab and started shouting at me because he's told me ‘many times’not to go in his room but I only went in to ask if he wanted anything to eat, I wasn't snooping. His door was also open btw

He's hardly been out of his room since which is the norm but when he has he's been swearing at me calling me a stupid bitch, I better not go in his room again, he's not celebrating his birthday here but wouldn't tell me who with or where he's going
I'm exhausted and don't know what to do anymore. I'm exhausted and worried about him and his mental health. My son is going to get evicted and thats affecting his mental health and he's suicidal. I feel like I'm failing both of them

Social services won't do anything as he's 17 in a week and won't engage anyway, I can't just turn the wifi off as he has data and can hot spot. I also need it as I WFH, before anyone asks

Nobody?😕

Tell both of his parents to shape up or the grandson can ship out. What are you going to do next year when he’s 18 and has no plans in life? Keep bankrolling him, your son? Your son needs to own up to his mistakes, like leaving his son with you, and come get him. Regardless of your son’s own issues he’s a parent he needs to be one. Stop being a doormat

Sounds very hard for you Op but this is on your DS, not you. He moved his DC away from everything he knew then left him with you, of course the boy's angry, he feels rejected. Your DS may have issues but it's time he lived up to being a parent. Time for you to step back and make his DPs look after their DC

Your son needs to take responsibility for HIS son.
Nobody who called me a “bitch” would be staying in my house, that’s for sure.

How do react to any of these things? Do you actually say that’s unacceptable? Is there ever any punishment or censure? Do you ever tell him what needs to happen if he’s not prepared to go to school, like he needs to go to work instead? He seems to think he can sit in his room all day watching porn and it doesn’t sound like you’re able to do much about it, or do much about it. I have an autistic nephew and he is difficult but he does respond to structure and clear rules. These need to include not smoking weed and telling him he will be going back to his mothers if he continues to do so.

To be perfectly honest, I think you should throw him out. He's treating you like dirt. You owe him nothing.

How is he getting money for weed or alcohol? I would make it a non-negotiable condition of him staying - no weed. There are plenty of studies linking weed to poor mental health as our weed is totally different to the "legal" stuff in Amersterdam, US etc.

Start turning the WiFi off at night and have the discussion that if he doesn't start acting like a decent human being he can leave your home at 18. The Army is that way -->

Edit - just saw about data. Who is paying for it, and how?

I would go back to the gp about the diagnosis and mental health referral. I would also go back to social services he is under 18. I think you can request a team around the child meeting. Also contact the school nursing team they are involved until he reaches non education age -19. They can give you advice where to turn. Cahms should be able to at least call you to advise even if you are on a waiting list. I would also consider getting him a counsellor. I would keep fighting and wouldn’t give up. His dad needs to be parenting him ideally.

You’re not failing the pair of them but your grandson’s parents are failing him! None of this should be on you. Why on earth did your son uproot him and then dump him on you? No wonder the lad is acting all fucked up!
Your son needs to step up and parent (so should the lad’s mother). If your son is about to be evicted, wouldn’t he be more likely to be rehoused if he has a ‘child’ to care for too?

I read your other thread and I think you are going to get the same advice here. Your son needs to step up and parent. Why is he not taking responsibility for his own child?

So sorry op. I can tell from your post that you really care for him and this must be difficult. I know he’s 17 but he’s dealing with childhood trauma and smoking weed wont help.
I can only suggest that you do whatever you can to get him to a private therapist asap. I can’t imagine what this is like for you. I’m sorry I have no better advice.

I'm not really sure what extra advice you're looking for that wasn't said on your last thread OP. It doesn't seem as if he can carry on staying with you the way he's being. His father needs to take responsibility for him.

I agree with other posters. How is he getting money for weed etc?

Your house, your rules. You have taken him in and sounds like given him everything he wants - you don't deserve to be treated like this. He sounds manipulative too; being nice and going out with you as his birthday approaches. If he can't at least treat you with a bit of decency then he loses his PC, loses his phone contract. Sounds like he's had a really rough time, but he can't treat you like that either. What will happen as he grows up? Will he stay with you forever?

You've posted this before and got lots of great advice.
Ultimately, you are not a punching bag or responsible for fixing your sons mistakes.
He needs to step up and you need to put you first.

He can't go back to his mums, social services were involved and deemed it unsuitable due to the man she was living with and she was neglectful. And yes, people could argue DS isn't much better but he didn't have a toothbrush and ended up needing some teeth out

My son gives him money, he lies and says we have no food in and I've told him to check with me first but he just gives it to him anyway as that's the only time he messages. He ignores my sons messages any other time. He also pays for his monthly phone top-up.

The plan was for my grandson to move with my son but he refused as his room was set up here etc. Now with the eviction it looks likely he'll move back in, I know posters say go to the council but social housing is limited that wont happen for just a lone male and even grandson wouldn't make much difference as hes nearly 17, not a young child. My son is looking for other places but it needs to be near us and work so it's difficult. Even if grandson did move in with him, then my son would struggle as he wouldn't be able to work if grandson is home all day as he'd get up to who knows what. I went away with my daughter and her children, grandson stayed home with my son there and that's when he broke his PC (accidentally he spilt juice) and he threatened suicide if my son didn't give him money.

I was hoping he'd at least go to college enrollment but he didn't and now that doesn't look likely, its still open from Tuesday it'll be from all ages not 16-18 but the course is probably full. All he wants to do is sleep all day, play games on his PC and eat just once a day which is also a worry. He tells me he wasn't watching porn, he was reading something called “yaoi”

RE punishment - I do tell him about how he speaks to me is unacceptable but turning the wifi off, taking his phone isn't possible as I WFH and the times I have when he was school refusing he was disruptive and I really had to work. I haven't taken his PC ever as he is very protective over it and it wouldn't go well. He hates me even going in his room to put clothes away which I have stopped but now he's got clothes everywhere downstairs that he hasn't taken upstairs, he leaves clothes wet in the washer but kicks off if I put them in the tumble dryer, I think he's got clothes in there now actually. I took razors about a week or so ago and he's still kicking off about that because he can't shave but he was using them to self harm, not in a way they're supposed to be used

I just don't know what the answer is, he likely wont go to college, I can't talk to the GP due to his age and needing his consent which he won't give or engage himself, he refuses all autism talk. I'm just exhausted and don't know how to help him. He's going to the zoo today with my son which is a yearly thing around his birthday so at least I have some space from him today

I don't know if he is being manipulative but a few days ago he did ask me for 4 comics from eBay and I said maybe for his birthday. He hasn't mentioned them since but I have actually ordered them (he doesn't know) they probably wont come in time for his actual birthday but if not I was planning on telling him i’d ordered them but I don't even know if I should tell him or even give him them with how he's been the past couple of days

My son gives him the money, he lies to him and my son gives in

My son is 18 and autistic OP and I've had to physically go with him to enrollment since he left school for college. He wouldn't be able to go on his own. Emotionally he's about 14.

I'm not sure what else you want from your threads. If it's just to vent then vent away. Nothing will change unless you force it.

Nothing willchange unless your son can parent with more boundaries.
No devices after a certain hour.
Eating with the family for one meal per day.
No swearing at any person.
Completing a fair chores list per week.
No pocket money unless chores done tc.

Could GS get a part time job?

I would not have him living with me.

Both myself and my son were going to go with him to college especially as we hadn't applied for a course as I tried to get him to many of the open days last year/this year but he wouldn't go, then we were supposed to have a meeting to do with a course but he refused to go to that too so I was advised to take him along on the enrollment days but he totally refused on both Thursday and Friday. Thursday with an excuse but Friday he just kicked off. I just don't know what to do or where to turn. GP won't talk to me due to his age and needing his consent and they also need his consent to talk to my son. I was told to take him to A&E if I thought he was in crisis, they said it's up to CAMHS to prescribe meds. Social services are unlikely to do anything because of his age and he won't engage and CAMHS likely wont be given an appointment before next year when he turns 18 and tbh I'm unsure what they will do anyway as again he isn't engaging.

I just feel stuck because there's nothing I can do, he barely talks to me unless it's to kick off about something and he doesn't leave his room much or go out much which I know isn't good for him, and I know if he was going somewhere regularly like college for example that'd likely get his sleep back on track as he'd have no option of sleeping all day

I’m trying to work out how you have been burdened with this reaponsibility. In my world you’re either learning or earning. If your grandson is not willing to enrol in college, then he’s out looking for a job and paying board. If he doesn’t make a board payment, three strikes and he’s out. He’s playing you all, you need to switch games.

Where is your husband in all this? Honestly I would be tempted to sell up and move into a one bedroom place on my own.

I agree with those saying to try paying for counseling (if you're able to afford it) I don't see the point in waiting for your son to take responsibility, it's not going to happen and in any case grandson is nearly an adult. The right counselor can make a significant difference, start to help him offload or at least examine, the (totally understandable) feelings of rejection and anger he's got stored up and to think about what kind of future he wants.

I would say, some of his behaviour that you've highlighted is really common for male teens: smoking weed, odd eating patterns, constantly online, messy habits. It's also really common for all teens to hate having their rooms intruded on.

They're difficult to enforce as we can't just keep taking his PC out of his room, he wouldn't allow it but it's complicated with the wires etc. Plus if he'd been sleeping all day that wouldn't make him sleep and he'd probably end up keeping me awake and I have to work. I don't give him money, my son does. He does his own washing occasionally which he started doing after I found blood on his clothes from the self harm so presumably he puts the wash on to hide it from me which is a concern. When he puts the wash on he never takes it out though which is an issue.

He cooks for himself but only when I'm in bed as that's the only time he eats, I try to get him to eat at other times and he refuses. His eating is quite disordored tbh and I don't know if it's the autism I suspect or it's actually an eating disorder. While we were out yesterday I asked if he wanted to go and get something and he said no, he'd had his one takeaway this month and didn't want anything. I don't know what he did eat in the end. When he does cook though he never tidies up after himself, doesn't wash up and leaves mess everywhere. Just shrugs when I tell him or ask him to. I don't think it's helped by the fact my son is tidy so when he was living here he'd wash up whatever grandson had left out

I don't think a part-time job is likely. He is already saying he doesn't want a job, he’ll be a twitch streamer like one he's obsessed with. He has no GCSEs as he didn't sit them

I think the only things that will help are to get him to enrol in college (you ring and find out how to apply and literally take him there to enrol.) Don’t set it up as a punishment but as an opportunity to do something he is interested in.

Also put pressure on your son to move with him into their own place as soon as possible, even if you have to give/lend them money for a deposit etc.

I understand how hard it is to enforce rules like no internet, no cooking at night etc as you could put yourself in danger. I have been in this situation myself and I couldn’t enforce normal household rules because I was literally battered. It was easier to back off and keep out of the way. My dc were younger and social services and camhs were involved.

The only other route is to call the police if he kicks off and don’t be scared to do so. Obviously you can only do this is if he is breaking the law.

One more idea, sell up and everybody has to move on.

As I said in my OP mine and husbands relationship isn't the best and he goes away for weeks and sometimes months at a time so isn't here. He doesn't have a relationship with grandson at all

On my other thread someone suggested counselling via gaming but it's whether he'd engage as in his weird “there's nothing wrong with him”

It was a foundation course at the college with vocational subjects he could choose from and maths and English but it's probably full now. We had to go to the college and talk to them about it, it wasn't something you could apply for online presumably due to limited places. I could try on Tuesday but there's probably no space and he doesn't want to do anything except maths and english but I thought the course might be good for him.

My son has been looking for places but as I said it's difficult so he may need to move in even short term, I'm worried as he's on his final warning at work too. He did mention moving back down south as here hasn't been good to either of them but that'd just mess with grandsons head so I don't think that should happen. He's moved up here away from his friends (though he does see them a few times a year), then was promised to move back down when he was due to start college, then he realised that wasn't happening so to actually move that'd cause more problems for him as he wouldn't know if he were coming or going!