Need a handhold don't know what to do anymore (long post sorry)

[AngelicAbout]

Apologies for posting again, I don't know where the best place to post is to get traffic or even a handheld. Sorry for the long post. I've copied and pasted from my previous post but added more on, I wanted to include all the history and background.

My son briefly dated a woman for a few months and ended up having grandson (16, 17 at the end of the month). His mum was his resident parent until he was about 11, there's a long backstory but she chose a man over him/her other children (son isn't the father of his siblings). He also came out around this time and his mum tried to guilt trip him. My son had full custody of him from then. He hasn't seen his mum in year's but she does send the occasional message although I don't think he replies to her most the time.

2 years ago my son moved grandson up here with him, son is autistic and has mental health issues himself and was quite lonely down in their previous area and was struggling with grandson and his school refusal at his old school anyway.

They moved here summer 2023, they were living with myself and my husband (our relationship isn't the best and he goes away for weeks sometimes months at a time) and grandson started Y10 at his new school that September. From the off we had issues with him refusing to go, he hated it, had no friends etc and was angry at my son for moving him away from his friends. Son promised he could move back down south for him to start college in their old area (I'm not sure why he said this as I don't think this was the plan!

After a few months we had the education welfare team out many times, he was very behind at school and they weren't sure he’d catch up. They figured out he was working at a year 8 level, no sen although I do think he is autistic like my son but he gets defensive and says he isn't. We got him a tutor over zoom and he was still on the school roll. It was 2 hours a day and the plan was to continue with the tutor but slowly work up to him being in full time school. This never happened, he went in for a few hours but he started refusing again and also refused to engage with the tutor. He would lie and say it had been cancelled etc.
This year he was due to sit his GCSEs but that didn't happen, he's agreed to go to college and sit them but that doesn't look likely. He's fixated on what my son said 2 years ago about moving back down south (we’re in Manchester) for college. Anyway that's the education aspect. My son ended up moving out and grandson stayed living here.

Grandsons behaviour is awful, he barely leaves his room, his sleep schedule is all over the place, he sleeps all day and is awake all night playing games and on discord calls to people in America etc. He self harms and has threatened suicide but I don't know if he's serious or trying to be manipulative, drinks/smokes weed. He likes cooking but doesn't tidy up after himself. He shouts at me for simple things such as putting a t-shirt of his in the dryer, putting his clothes away in his drawer to try and be helpful. Calls me an old bitch and other things. He doesn't eat during the day he cooks at night. Manipulated my son into giving him money for a new PC as he broke his previous one by spilling juice on it. He then got a virus on the new PC within a few days. Last Christmas he lied to my son about me taking his Christmas money
My son might be evicted so will more than likely move back in and he's not happy at all, that's when he threatened suicide (again), told me I shouldn't give him money when he asks (it's not up to grandson though!), said his dad ignores him and only messages when he wants something which isn't true he tries to make an effort but grandson ignores his messages. He does message grandson if I haven't replied to ask if I'm awake/ask him to get me to call him etc but he does message other times too.

Sorry this post is so long. I've tried getting Camhs involved but the wait list is long and probably will turn 18 before we get an appointment and I doubt he'd engage anyway. School tried to get him to talk to the school counsellor but wouldn't
I called the GP the other day but due to his age they wouldn't talk to me without his consent and told me to take him to A&E or call 111 if I thought he was in crisis.

I'm concerned about his sleep, his eating (he only eats once a day which is during the night when I'm asleep, he either cooks a random mismatch of food or just snacks on things). I was advised to take him to college on Thursday when enrolment opened and talk to them about a course I thought was suitable, on Wednesday he agreed sort of he said “whatever”, then went out and smoked weed, got back and slept from about 3pm. Woke up at some point whilst I was asleep as he does. I tried to get him to go to the college but he said he felt sick as he'd eaten a whole trifle, he peeled the lid off so if he didn't finish it, it wouldv been wasted so “forced” himself. I left him to it and tried again yesterday but he fully refused and kicked off, swore at both me and his dad, threatened suicide and then changed the subject about him not wanting his dad to move back in

Yesterday, we had a good day. He seemed in a good mood and we went shopping although he was texting on discord the whole time but he was calm and actually went out with me which is rare these days. He pointed out things he wants for his birthday (next week) and it was nice. Then we got home and he kicked off about me going in his room and seeing what was on his PC. I'm honestly not sure what it was, it was sort of a comic style but porn essentially. All I saw was a naked man (it was a drawing/animation) and he noticed I was there and closed the tab and started shouting at me because he's told me ‘many times’not to go in his room but I only went in to ask if he wanted anything to eat, I wasn't snooping. His door was also open btw

He's hardly been out of his room since which is the norm but when he has he's been swearing at me calling me a stupid bitch, I better not go in his room again, he's not celebrating his birthday here but wouldn't tell me who with or where he's going
I'm exhausted and don't know what to do anymore. I'm exhausted and worried about him and his mental health. My son is going to get evicted and thats affecting his mental health and he's suicidal. I feel like I'm failing both of them

Social services won't do anything as he's 17 in a week and won't engage anyway, I can't just turn the wifi off as he has data and can hot spot. I also need it as I WFH, before anyone asks

Due to him being at the zoo with my son I had the chance to see my daughter and her children but instead I'm sat here worrying about grandson

There's a saying that we're only as happy as our unhappiest child. I would think that would extend to a grandchild you have to parent.

He's lucky to have at least one adult who cares about him. It must be horrible for the poor kid not to have the anchor in his parents.

Op, I remember your previous thread and have just skimmed this one. You were given a lot of advice but you don’t seem to take any notice of it. Your grandson and son can’t stay with you, it’s destroying you and isn’t doing your grandson any favours. He is getting money and a free place to live, food, gaming etc. whilst abusing you. What he is saying to you and the way he is treating you IS abuse. I’m willing to bet your son is similar and you are enabling it all.
I am sorry to sound harsh. I don’t know what you want anyone to say. They aren’t going to change their behaviour when you just let them walk all over you and they get to act like absolute wasters. Tell your son he can’t move in, and he needs to come and collect his son also. They will need to figure out what to do and perhaps actually build a life of their own. It would do your grandson good to stand on his own two feet, and realise he needs to actually do something with his life.

I think you’re heroic. So many grandparents have to step up in situations like this and they should all have medals.

can you go to the GP and ask for support for you? That might be one way around your grandson not allowing you to talk about him; you are absolutely allowed to talk about him if he’s the source of your exhaustion and emotional distress.

Ask the GP if they can suggest any local charities that support older people or families. Round here (I’m in a different part of the country) there are several small charities specifically for older people who are struggling with lots of different issues. Someone might be able to fund some kind of useful intervention, or just get you some respite.

And are there any charities locally for young men, or male mental health? Your grandson wouldn’t need to engage with them initially. You could go to them and ask for advice and support, see what they suggest.

If your GP is no use, your local Citizens Advice Bureau, or Family Hub if you have one, should be able to help. Make an appointment and tell them the whole story.

Your grandson and you have both been horribly let down by your son and his ex. Your grandson must feel like the entire adult world is unsafe and chaotic. He’s not mature enough to recognise that you’re the only thing standing between him and destitution, but when he’s older, he will look back and realise what you did for him.

If you want permission to chuck him out, you’ve got it - his behaviour towards you is intolerable at the moment. But it sounds like you don’t want to. So I think you need to get your game face on and go and make a fuss until some local organisations give you some support. Be the squeaky wheel. You’re clearly a determined and resourceful person, if understandably at the end of your tether.

Your grandson is obviously not happy and hasn’t been since he moved. I would support he and your son moving back down south and starting again. It’s the only chance you have of being free so don’t block it.

i think that @PacificStatemakes a lot of sense. Your son doesn’t seem able to support his child effectively. Your GS needs professional help. You can’t change either of these facts.

So concentrate on your own needs and maybe that will give you strength and guidance. In other words, put your own oxygen mask on first.

I don’t recall your previous thread @AngelicAboutbut this post pretty much sums up the situation.
Your grandson is unfortunate that he seems to have two deadbeat wasters as parents but all the while you’re enabling this situation, neither your son or your grandson are going to change. Why would they?
You need to tell your son to come and collect his child and parent him. Preferably back down south.
You are being abused by the pair of them and who knows what the fuck is going on with your husband in the mix too.
Time to put yourself first because all the time you enable this absolute shit show where literally none of those ‘men’ respect you, it will never change.
But if you’ve posted before and posters have said that you’ve ignored all the suggestions then I don’t know what else you expect to happen to be honest 🤷🏻‍♀️

You talk about how difficult it would be for your son to have your grandson with him, but what about how difficult it is for you. You are taking this responsibility to make his life easier, but what about your life. You need to inconvenience your son. You need to inconvenience your grandson. Otherwise nothing will change.

That is a good idea about talking to the GP about him for me.

My son wasn't like this and still isn't and as said he's getting evicted so he cant have grandson with him until he finds a new place, its affecting his mental health and he's told me he is suicidal due to the stress of everything I can't just see DS be homeless and the council won't house him, it isn't that simple as there's a shortage in houses and he wouldn't be a priority for them families etc would be. They don't have much of a relationship either atm so grandson wouldn't agree, I think the only reason he's gone out with him today is because his birthdays next weekend so he has to be “nice” so he gets things as a poster said (although he wasn't nice with his attitude toward me) as he would refuse to go out with us any other time. He usually ignores my sons messages and refuses to come downstairs when my son is here

I will contact citizens advice, it's so hard because there's limited resources when he won't engage

Them moving down south won't be good for either of them, DS was very lonely and he would struggle to work if grandsons doing nothing and he still won't have a place at a college even down there, plus he'd likely get into more trouble with drugs. The only plus about him not going out much is he's not involved in county lines. It’d also mess with his head as I said, the constant back and forth of things he's been told. He already has little trust it will make it worse and he won't know where he's coming or going

Neither of them would be living in my house. The day the grandson called you a bitch I would be marking off the days til hes 18 and then saying see ya!! No one needs these sort of people in their lives. You’ve really tried your best and you need to drop the rope now

Ask him to get his own place

Don't underplay it when you talk to the GP/CAB. Be totally honest about the stress, the abuse, the suicidal talk, the weed, the refusal to engage in education etc etc. The more you tell them, the more they'll see you're genuinely approaching a crisis (and to be honest, that you are not totally safe in your own home at the moment).

Did you say you were in Manchester? These people might be worth a try. I don't think your grandson has a diagnosis of psychosis, but they say they will signpost people to more support if they can't help you directly:

Details of Manchester 'Early Help' hubs are here (these aren't only for families with young children) - maybe ask your GP to refer you to one of these?

For mental health support for him, you might be able to do a runaround the CAMHS referral by calling 111 and seeing if they can refer you to someone.

Age UK Manchester might be able to signpost support for grandparents with caring responsibilities

There's also Manchester Young Lives

Ace Education Manchester focuses on young adults not in employment, education or training (NEETs)

You don't need his permission to do any of this. To be honest, I wouldn't even tell him that you're contacting these people. Just see whether you can get some support first.

My son was incredibly isolated down south, it was just him and grandson and then grandson started school refusing so DS had to quit his job as he couldn't leave him and there's no option of WFH for his job (he's an engineer). At least up here he has me, a job (though he's on his last warning) and socialises. He's struggled with his MH on and off for year's, is on antidepressants and can be doing good for a while then struggle again. Yes, longterm it would be good for grandson to move in but while he's not got stable housing it isn't as it’d be moving him from one place to another to another. I know it can't go on like this though, it isn't good for anyone but my immediate concerns are his mental health and who he's going to go and spend his birthday with. Not throwing him out. He was previously going to have his friends from down south come here this week for a few days. His birthday is on Sunday and the next day I think his friends start college so they were planning on celebrating together early but he's told them I said they can't come, I didn't say this but he did say to me he doesn't think they want to be friends with him anymore and it's all mine and his dads fault etc

Thank you @PacificStateItll have to be a GP appointment for me as they already said they can't talk to me about him or even let me book an appointment but ill look at those links. I was really hoping college would've been a fresh start for him

I really think a lot of his behaviour and anger due to trauma from his mum, he was supposed to have counselling or something arranged through social services but covid hit and that never happened. She was neglectful but she also sounds slightly emotionally abusive, she told him he was an accident (he would've been 11 or under), said she couldn't be bothered in a custody meeting and when he came out to her as gay/bi she cried and called her mum and they were basically both telling him he wasn't etc. Myself and my son have told him we love him no matter what but he doesn't really talk about it and I'm wondering if part of the extreme reaction yesterday when I saw what he was looking at was sort of related to his sexuality, I'm wondering if there are any LGBT youth clubs nearby that he'd engage in.

Has he been assessed for neurodivergence? Sorry of if I missed that.

He hasn't, my son is autistic and they have very similar traits (and grandson has some of his own) but he refuses to engage, says he isn't autistic and there's nothing wrong with him etc. I do suspect he is though especially considering my son is