Another celebrity uses a surrogate

[EachandEveryone]

Michelle Williams who I love. Already birthed three babies. Just why? https://people.com/michelle-williams-thanks-surrogate-for-miracle-baby-girl-after-welcoming-fourth-child-11793338

There was a case against few years ago where 2 CONSENTING adults agreed that one would kill, cook and eat the other.

There have been multiple cases of CONSENTING adults asking surgeons to amputate healthy limbs because they have body dysmorphia.

Choking during sex (or at all!) is illegal even between CONSENTING adults.

Society has agreed that some things are too awful.to permit regardless of the consent of those participating. And in surrogacy there are 3 parties involved, one of whom cannot consent.

Having really thought about surrogacy (I think it should be 100% illegal) I have now come to the conclusion that having babies with donor eggs/ sperm should also be banned. I just don’t think it’s ever in the best interests of the resulting child.

And I was separated from my mother very shortly after birth, for 2 weeks, with no contact at all, for medical reasons. I can’t say if it screwed me up exactly but I never liked the way my mum smelled (she was very clean!) and had a difficult time showing her or receiving physical affection from her all my life.
I only found out about the separation in adulthood and it honestly made me feel very upset. I did love my mum but there was something broken there.

Willingly as in 'im desperate for the money '

There's payment involved in prostitution, too. Does that make it OK?

Rephrase.

she took the baby from it’s mum.

genetic or not, to that baby the woman that carries it is mum.

surrogacy takes the mum away from the baby.

Except the baby?

the baby will absolutely see the woman who gestates them as mum.

We should consider surrogacy because sometimes it works whilst avoiding the elephant in the room that it actively relies on exploitation but that's fine because of the one time everyone lived happily ever after in la la land.

That's not how safeguarding works.

The baby's feelings when they go up are an after thought. They should just be grateful they were alive.

People are forced to do things against their will all the time.

even if it’s not “force”, circumstances can mean they have no choice.

you offer 100k to a woman on the bones of her arse with children to feed, rent to pay. She’s facing homelessness with her two children.

what’s she going to do? 9 months “work”, she can sah with her kids, pay the bills, get out in front of her financial situation. All she has to do is carry and birth a baby.

Not really a “choice” is it?

I mean I am not a sex worker. But if someone offered me 1m as a one off, hell yes I’d consider it. I’d probably do it. Would I do it if there was no money on the table. Absolutely not.

This is the issue. We can’t show studies as yet as the rise in surrogacy has been relatively recent. We have to wait until the current generation are adults.

however extrapolating from studies on newborns removed from their mothers at birth does show that it causes harm. So it’s not unreasonable to suggest the current fashion for surrogacy is going to cause problems in the next generation.

Personally, I find surrogacy quite a grim concept. But I'd still file this one very much under 'none of my business'.

I remember that utterly loathsome ‘Mrs Alice’ paraded her bought baby on Instagram, with every society gel commenting on how clever she was. The photos of her, perfectly coiffed and made up face, lying in bed epitomised the smoke and mirrors nature of this whole sorry saga.

I would not socialise or speak to anyone I knew who was involved in baby trafficking.

Why? There should be no such thing as others people’s children. This affects everyone.

Ever heard of the phrase “bad things happen when good men do nothing”?

is it my business? I’d say yes. This is a high profile celebrity, with a worldwide reach normalising surrogacy. It’s not even desperation, she already has 3 kids.

she’s making it sound like it’s a wonderful thing Christine has done, and she’s got a child as a result, and isn’t it all rainbows.

it is my business because someone needs to stand up and talks about the risks to the surrogate, and the ethics around buying babies, baby farms and commercial surrogacy, and the harm done to the babies.

the babies have no voice or consent in this. Women are selling their bodies. Same as prostitution, but with an innocent 3rd party.

Yep. The photos of men, tops off, lying in the maternity bed with a newborn, no woman in sight says it all.

makes my skin crawl. Completely erases women’s role in childbirth. Have baby, kick them out their hospital bed and take their place.

‘Incubator’ .. 😮

Good catch 😖
Says it all really.

This thread reminded me that I really should watch The Handmaids Tale.

Its not always men either, Khloe Kardashian did the whole photo of her lying in a hospital bed with "her" newborn as though she'd just given birth herself thing.

Quite a few people defended it by saying they were sure the expensive, private hospital had more than one bed and it's not like she kicked the surrogate out of the bed so she could get in a pose with the baby although I wouldn't put it past her.

Hey if you live your life by the ethos that if one thing causes real harm then that thing should be eliminated entirely then wow, I bow down to you. I’m assuming you never take a flight, never shop in any fast fashion chain (child exploitation, environmental disasters) refuse phones or technology becuase they involve mining which involves exploitation of children in poor nations, are vegan, only buy from locally grown producers to avoid exploitation of workers in foreign countries…

my point being, if “some harm exists, therefore it must be banned” were applied universally, almost nothing would remain: not medicine (clinical trials sometimes cause harm), not education (systemic inequalities), not adoption (documented abuses), not relationships (domestic violence exists).

Oh my.

Let's race to the bottom and just shove children back into mines because that will revive the UK economy and those kids probably would fail at school anyway.

🤔

Oh it wouldn't matter if they died because they'd probably be dead anyway by 25 from drugs or knife crime.

@RedToothBrush Wait… youre ok for children in DRC mining so your iPhone can exist, but you’re against it happening in the uk? That’s an odd definition of safeguarding…

So you don’t have a child if you can’t have a child. Or you adopt. You don’t decide that because you want you get to have.

Adoption isn’t a solution if you want a child you have a genetic connection.

I mean you can say what people should and should do but people who want children desperately will have them.

Your last sentence is clearly false in the real world.