Another celebrity uses a surrogate

[EachandEveryone]

Michelle Williams who I love. Already birthed three babies. Just why? https://people.com/michelle-williams-thanks-surrogate-for-miracle-baby-girl-after-welcoming-fourth-child-11793338

Would you include IVF in that?

Suspect there would be less surrogacy if NDAs weren’t allowed.

Very few of the pro surrogacy posts ever do that.
They're usually all full I and me but don't mention the innocent commodity at the heart of it all.

One very small saving grace I will award Michelle is that she did realise this woman had a name of her own. Unlike say Nicole Kidman who referred to her as a bloody a gestational carrier.

I said in my post I am very divided on the issue and don’t know where I fall.

I think they don't want to ruin their bodies especially if their body is their fortune i.e actresses and models.
And they probably don't want to give up work opportunities for 9 months.
It's properly fucked up.

I don’t know who she is and don’t agree with surrogacy unless exceptional circumstances.
I can understand the desire for a newborn that a woman unable to carry her child might have.
However, this woman has 3 children and I find her desire for a fourth via surrogacy incredibly selfish. If she can’t, genuinely, carry another child she should be grateful for the children she has and get on with it.
Renting a uterus and taking a newborn away from their mother? Her arrogance is staggering.

@LifeOfAShowGirl but adoption of a baby is a necessity, the child wasn’t created to be adopted, they have been adopted due to circumstances. A child born via surrogacy is created purposely to be taken away from its birth mother

All adoptions result from tragic circumstances for an innocent child.
Ill parent
Dead parent
Addict parent
Negligent parent.
Abusive parent.
Parent that just cannot cope.

You're completely correct, it is the same in surrogacy - but surrogacy deliberately creates those circumstances for cash.

People trafficking.

Which is exactly why I have said I am divided on the issue.

I don’t know about separating babies from their birth Mother. My DC was premature and therefore separated from me for extensive periods of time. He doesn’t seem (to me!) to be traumatised by this. I know that’s different as it was essential and in his best interests at the time but is there any evidence that children born from surrogacy are traumatised due to separation?

I read a disgusting court case recently. A couple had used IVF and the wife died from pregnancy complications. Her widower won the right to use their frozen embryos with a surrgoate, putting another woman at the same risk of death. How the hell is this legal?

@LifeOfAShowGirl but in your post where you said you were divided you just talked about the adults involved, you never mentioned the child. You said if both parties freely consent then it is down to a woman to choose whatever she does with her body. But there aren’t just two parties involved. What about the other party, the most important person here, the child?

I don't know how anyone who saw the Ukrainian Baby Farms during COVID can ever support surrogacy. Hundreds of babies sold to who knows who.

'but in the UK...' .

As if many of those babies weren't for UK buyers.

And every 'altruistic' surrogacy (which in itself a falacy - there will ALWAYS be pressure, be it want for money, attention, FOG or just old fashioned emotional manipulation) paves the way for dystopian shit that we saw in Ukraine.

It's grotesque.

It's so bloody depressing that this needs to be said.

It's immoral to commission babies and separate them from their mother under contact. Fucking disgusting.

The legal position around consent for children is that until a child reaches Gillick Competency (age 13/14), the parents make decisions on their behalf. Again, I am not commenting on whether I agree with it or not. I think it’s a very nuanced argument that I am torn on.

IVF you put yourself through the pain, emotionally and physically, of trying to become pregnant. You aren’t putting it on someone else. So yes I think it’s completely different, although of course you could argue that it’s the more privileged people that are able to ‘buy’ more goes and better success.

Perhaps your father is resilient. It's good he went on to have a good life. But I can't imagine he was completely unaffected by his mother dying in childbirth

And their rights should always come above wants.

They won't but they should.

The purchase and sale of humans is abhorrent and should be outlawed

I don't agree with surrogacy, or celebrities adopting (buying?) children

It's exploiting vulnerable people and prioritising the entitlement of the rich over the needs of the child

Shame on you Michelle (and Elton John, and Brad Pitt / Angelina Jolie)

Does any child ask to be born or is it all out of selfishness?
My daughter said to me once I didn't ask to be born you chose to have me. It was me who gave birth to her.

Someone asked about how much it costs. There was a BBC podcast (may have been part of the series The Gift where they followed up the stories uncovered by DNA testing kits) where, I'm sure, they said it could be as high as £250k for the celeb/wealthy level gestational surrogates. I think more around the £100k for normal people.

I can see why some would be tempted by that sum. From my perspective, I'd be thinking 'but you'd not be expected to work for, what, 12 months but then what?' Would you be able to sustain any kind of career if stop-starting to have a year off every few years to be a surrogate? Do prospective wealthy people want someone who is a regular surrogate or someone who has had her own family? I'm not sure you could make a living from being a surrogate because I'm not sure having lots of kids is what wealthy parents are looking for in a surrogate. I have so many questions around this and the practicalities of how it works. Needs an AMA on this.

There is one US high profile member of Biden's govt who has two surrogate kids 11 months apart!

Surrogacy is easier to understand for the child they feel wanted and loved. However, adopted children brings all sorts of psychological issues.