Men’s expectation

[Sparklesandspandexgallore]

Hi
Wanting others opinions.
A female relative of mine- late 20s, has just ended things with her boyfriend and I’m wondering if this is typical.
Some background: she has a very good career. Works for a global company as a manager, managing staff both in the country she lives and internationally. She is the youngest employee at that level and also in a predominantly male workforce. She has achieved a great deal in her career. She is also intelligent, kind, generous and very attractive, but not in a plastic bleached blonde/lip filler/botox way.
Anyhow my question is. Even though her latest boyfriend claimed to want an independent, intelligent, genuine, driven, motivated, hard working partner, when it came down to it he was more bothered about himself. He accused her of cheating whenever was abroad working. He told people that SHE was punching and he could do better, he insisted on knowing her body count, then called her single friend names when she had a one night stand, but said it was different for men.
This is not her only relationship. Her previous one ended when her boyfriend said he didn’t want to get married, have children etc etc. and he thought he had mental health issues. Next thing, he has met a younger woman - bleached blonde fake hair, lip filler, fake nails, fake tan etc etc and got engaged within 6 months of ending things with my relative. Again he texted her saying she was great, so motivated etc etc.
Long post but men saying they want someone who has a great career, is driven, intelligent, funny etc etc. is it all bullshit? Is what they want a submissive Barbie lookalike who will put them on a pedestal?
Yet I see post after post if men claiming they don’t want to be taken for a ride, want a woman who is financially independent but when they meet that person they can’t seem to handle it.

By the way my relative is not perfect. She herself had said she can be blunt and to the point, she had to be managing a team of men. All her ex’s have said that is something they admire , but really is it?
Do they just want to be mothered but can’t admit that?

yet you will see post after post of men saying they absolutely do not want a gold digger. That a woman must contribute 50/50 in the relationship

The expression gold digger makes me laugh. What do most men have to offer financially. The square root of fuck all.

The way men flatter themselves is astonishing.

@OneNeatBlueOrca You've never gone on a date with a woman who is clearly trying to find out how wealthy you are? I have.

I'm by no means saying that all women are like that, but some women are.

I wish we still had that laughing emoji! 🤭. I agree with every word.

I agree, there is no gold to dig in the first place. But I do admire men for trying to get a good deal in a relationship. I think more women should do the same. I’m not interested in paying half of all the bills and doing more labour on the home. I’m not going to put my health at risk giving birth, be primary career for the children and put my career/livelihood at risk without getting something more on return. There is nothing wrong with a bit of logic and being a little transactional to look out for our best interest as women.

I think she was probably trying to find out if you were a potential cocklodger.

Most men dont have very much to offer.

I believe it, I’ve been on dates with men who have. Makes sense to see if you are both playing in the same arena.

I can totally believe women try to get an idea of a man's financials, just as men try to get an idea of what a woman looks like. I don't think women are always doing it because they're planning on landing a zillionaire, but if you're looking for a relationship then you want someone who's sorted. And yeah, there's plenty of dialogue about female gold diggers and how horrible they are, but outside of MN I haven't heard much about the men who expect to be subsidised and don't offer much by way of domestic labour to compensate.

I’m not sure who said ‘men want women with a good career’ in my experience they don’t care about any of that.

No difference if she works in a bar or is Karen Brady at the beginning. None.

They care about wanting to ride them, and if they can make them feel ‘the best.’ That’s it.

Just leaving this here...

Men have always complained about Women’s expectations and Women have always complained about Men’s expectations… This is nothing new.

Given that I was there and (unless this is a very weird coincidence - is your name Debbie? Or Alison?) you weren't, I'd say you're wrong.

Most women don't have very much to offer financially either but that in itself doesn't matter. What matters is that whatever the female equivalent of a cocklodger is, they're definitely out there.

Your views aren't that welcome here as a man...telling a website full of women they dont have much to offer.

Why arent you on dadsnet. Take your misogyny there.

I dont want a man with loads of debt and totally unstable when I am in a top profession and completely financially independent. I dont want a cocklodger like you dragging me down.

Men mistake women wanting stability or equality as gold digging. Jesus dont make me laugh.

I think it's probably true that women overall are more likely to value financial stability. However, I also think they're more likely to do the bulk of the domestic labour, even if they out earn the man. The average "kept" woman (and to be fair, they're more common) does more unpaid labour within the relationship/family than the average "kept" man. At a class level, it's not a like for like comparison.

In my experience the only men who like high earning women are cocklodgers.

Men that work can't stand the thought of their woman earning more than them or being more important than them. It's pathetic really.

I honestly feel that most men want someone who works a 40 hour week, splits bills 50/50, and does al the childcare, child rearing, cooking and cleaning. If they could have that, they'd be happy.

Why is it ok for a man to want a women who looks good but it's not ok for a woman to want a man who is financially solvent?

And on the subject of gold-diggers I don't think men really understand what a gold digger is. A gold digger wants holidayhomes, mercedes cars and hermes handbags, diamonds and gold. A woman who expects to be taken out once or twice a month ISN'T a gold digger.

So, a woman can announce that men have nothing to offer, but a man can’t say the same about women? That hardly seems fair, or reasonable. Then again, I’m not in a “top profession” so maybe my opinion doesn’t count either.

What about a woman who doesn't necessarily expect Hermes but does expect the man to always pay for dates? Gold digger or something else?

Just because she has a decent job doesnt make her a catch. She obviously had some traits they didn’t want in a partner. Don’t be so judgemental on others appearances

Who cares? If you don't want to pay for all the dates, don't date her. She'll either find a man who will or she'll be single her entire life.

Well so are some men.

And plenty of women HAVE had dates with men who are trying to find out how wealthy they are - it's a problem for both sexes.

As for paying for dates, if you resent paying for your date to have a cheese sandwich then don't date her. Just date women who are happy to pay for their own food. Gold diggers want actual tangeable assets that they can trade. They don't care that you brought them a chicken curry.

Just pick a woman in your price bracket, that's all you've got to do

Just to be clear I’m not criticising anyone for their appearance. Rather the men who categorically say they do not want X Y or X and then end up going with this exact type of person.
To be clear my relative has dumped this man. Predictably he has tried to make contact and said he is sorry, she was correct he was wrong blah blah blah.
Both my relatives ex’s stated they would not date a woman who already had children. The last one started mentioning body count once they were dating. It obviously bothered him. She thinks he was gas lighting her to be honest.

I had an ex many years ago. When we met I was very thin, I wasn’t too well at the time. He mentioned how thin I was and that he was frightened I might snap- his words. Then after dating him and him encouraging me to eat more when we went out I put some weight on, not much but some. He told me I was the fattest women he had ever been with and refused to sleep with me. He also said he usually went for blue eyed blondes but thought he would give it a go with me. Told me how beautiful his ex was. Criticised my clothes. When I eventually dumped him he cried. I looked him up on fb straight afterwards and guess what? I thought the woman he was with was me!
No, turns out he chose someone who was the exact same height and build as me, wore an almost identical coat to the one he criticised when I wore it, has the same eye and hair colour, same length everything.
Just bizzare.
Also good for people in happy relationships. I really hope my relative finds the love she deserves. She really does have a lot to offer.

I get cross when people talk about gold diggers. I’ve never met one (although I can believe they exist) but I have met fortune hunters. Men (usually middle aged or older) who are doing okay but then meet a woman with a good income, her own house and pension. People say things like “Oh, he did well to meet her!”.

In the case of the OP’s relative, a man who is clearly so uncomfortable with his partner’s success may be less bright than her. It’s exhausting going out with a man much less bright - after a while, his stories and jokes become stale and, as they were his best material, he isn’t going to get better ones. He starts noticing that her reactions are getting more forced and gets shirty when she says that she’s heard about XYZ before. Other people clearly find her interesting but him less so.

A man who says he wants an ambitious woman likes the idea of one - she makes him look good - but he doesn’t like the price paid for that ambition.

Also why can’t people just be honest.
If you want someone with a low body count for example and someone who has big breasts and a big bum and isn’t career minded then say it.
Don’t seek out the opposite.
If you know for a fact someone has a career which involves them working long hours with the opposite sex then do not peruse them if you can’t hack it.

If you want someone with a very fit, toned body then accept they will spend a lot of time working on it! They don’t get like that by magic.
That was another criticism veiled at my relative although not directly.
I had this levelled at me too. Yet they want to be with someone who has the body of someone who works out a lot.
You know what the person is into before you get with them, it’s not a surprise.

Also why can’t people just be honest.If you want someone with a low body count for example and someone who has big breasts and a big bum and isn’t career minded then say it. Don’t seek out the opposite.

Well, you probably shouldn't say it, or be careful when you do 😁 But yeah, if that's what you want then go for it and own it to yourself.

Some people want someone they can beat down and control and constantly criticise, so I guess your nasty ex probably did know what he was looking for. Hope he's alone now.

Great point.

OP - sounds like your relative has a lot going for her. Sadly, it’s like looking for a needle in a haystack to find one that will appreciate all her qualities and be genuine about it. But if she knows her worth and won’t change or think she’s in the wrong, that’s a good place to start. (I always felt like I should change and I was the one who was too x, y, z and in the wrong).