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Lucy Letby: Have you changed your mind?

1000 replies

Kittybythelighthouse · 12/08/2025 12:54

The other thread has had a lot of really interesting discussion but we are running out of pages so here’s a new one for those who are interested in continuing the conversation.

Whether you’re sure she’s guilty, sure she isn’t, or are somewhere in between, I’m interested in hearing how your opinion has evolved (or hasn’t!) since you first heard about the case,

Please try to be respectful - this is a heated topic. Its a matter of huge public interest with a lot of strong opinions, but we are all adults and can disagree with each other in a respectful manner.

Old thread is here (the poll still has a few days left):
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5388914-lucy-letby-have-you-changed-your-mind?page=38&reply=146359313

Page 38 | Lucy Letby: have you changed your mind? | Mumsnet

I’ve been sensing a shift in opinions on the Lucy Letby case and I’m interested in hearing from people who have changed their mind either way. Did y...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5388914-lucy-letby-have-you-changed-your-mind?page=38&reply=146359313

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
Londonmummy66 · 14/08/2025 11:21

SellingBananas · 13/08/2025 20:23

This might be straying from the current conversation a bit, so apologies, but I thought it was worth saying.

One thing that is mentioned a lot by those who think she is guilty is, if course, the so-called confession note.

I, too, remember reading a headline along the lines of ‘I DID IT: accused killer nurse’s confession’ and thinking that was it - case closed, but then I read what she actually wrote and was shocked because I too, had written something very very similar after my daughter was stillborn a number of years ago.

My notes were: I did it, I killed her, I’m a murderer, I’m worse than a murderer, I deserve to be executed, I don’t deserve to live, there is no prison sentence long enough for me. I killed her with my arrogance/stupidity’ and I could go on.

To be clear, there was no cause found for my daughter’s death but I found a million reasons to blame myself, because I am conscientious and pride myself on keeping my children safe. And I couldn’t keep her safe.

At times, I was completely convinced I’d killed her because I was disappointed to find out she was a girl / because I had trouble gaining weight and didn’t try hard enough to force food down / because I didn’t intuit there was a problem until too late (a good mother would)/ because I felt smug when a midwife told me I was having the perfect pregnancy / because I forgot my vitamins more than once / because I once ate some meat that looked pink / because I had a sip of wine / because I exercised in my third trimester / because I got pregnant too quickly after my first / because I wasn’t at my pre pregnancy weight when I fell pregnant again / because I carried DD1’s pram to the car boot the day I found out my baby died and that certainly caused it.

It’s years later, and I’m happy and have moved forward, but if I dwell too long on it, I can’t absolutely say that I don’t - on some level - still believe i am guilty. It was on my watch, after all.

I share this because, reading Lucy’s note, I see echoes of the same mindset: someone conscientious, emotionally attached to those in her care, and overwhelmed by guilt — whether rational or not. I can’t know if that’s the case for her, but it’s another possible interpretation of what has been described as a “confession.”

I'm so sorry bananas. Thank you for sharing that. I sympathise with the guilt. Far less distressing but DD was born with a mild form of spina bifida. I blame myself for that as I was very very sick during the pregnancy and often could keep nothing down (including the supplements). DD now has a spinal fracture that the SB contributed to and I am constantly asking myself whether it would have been the case if I'd kicked up more of a fuss about the morning noon and night sickness.

Typicalwave · 14/08/2025 11:31

Kittybythelighthouse · 14/08/2025 11:19

You could ask that question about quite a few things in this trial! A large part of the answer is that the courts (and often doctors too for that matter) are extremely bad at handling statistics. There are multiple miscarriages of justice that come down to the courts’ inability to properly present statistics. There is as an hubristic arrogance that statisticians aren’t needed because certain things are common sense (there is also a trope that statistics bore juries). Judges and lawyers are often very intelligent, but intelligence does not = understanding when it comes to statistics.

Statisticians are afflicted by the knowledge that statistics are usually not common sense, but that practically everybody who isn’t trained to at least some degree in stats will assume that stats are common sense.

You likely wouldn’t trust heart surgery to ‘common sense’ - you know the surgeon has to have expertise - but people do this constantly with statistics and it creates a LOT of problems.

That aside, since the reporting ban lifted and the chart has been torn asunder by statisticians, some will tell you that it wasn’t evidence per se and that it was never of any real importance in securing the convictions.

But the reality is that it was used as evidence and it was projected as a visual practically every day during the trial. Of course it was important.

The harm it caused in cementing a lie in the jury’s minds can’t be underestimated. They were awash in complicated discussions about all kinds of minutiae across 10 months. We don’t know what swayed each jury member. But a handy visual, that seems like common sense, projected almost daily, surely had an impact.

Anyone interested in the podcast I mentioned upthread about stats and the wrongful convictions of ‘munchausen by proxy’ killer mothers (spoiler: none of them actually killed their children) it’s called ‘The Lab Detective’ here is a link - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-lab-detective-tortoise-investigates/id1590561275

I do question! But this chart seems to be the worst offender of them all. Even to someone with GCSE maths it’s obviously clear if you ONLY pick the incidents where the person was present (let’s ignore at least one of the charted incidents on that sheet appears to be incorrect) and ignore all the other incidents, plus all the other times the person was present without incident is the same as as saying ‘I picked the apples from two trees in the orchard wgere here’s 100 trees and then I threw away all the ones that were green and large (because I don’t like green or green and large) and I’m left with only red apples and then I threw away all the small red apples, so all apples must be red and small’ meanwhile, iver in the cox’s and pink lady section of the orchard…(I think, I’ve only got gcse maths ij my small brain)

And I’d argue with anyone saying that this piece of evidence wasnt all that important. It was. It took hundreds of pages and squished it into a handy visual, much easier to digest and looked hella damning. And it was shown over and over and over during the trial.

I bloody hope I’m never ever in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Kittybythelighthouse · 14/08/2025 11:35

Typicalwave · 14/08/2025 10:39

It’s a nasty smoke and mirrors tactic isn’t it. Not telling the complete truth but a version of it and relying on the listener to make the assumption

It was really slippery. I am sure that the phrasing “I spoke to someone who understands this datawas chosen carefully.

Anyone who wants to complain to the BBC can do so via this link:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints

I have sent in a complaint primarily regarding the “statistics” - it’s inexcusable for a public broadcaster to present mangled maths, especially in a matter of such huge public interest. I mentioned that wording “I talked to someone who understands this data” which is very slippery.

And also, importantly, the financial conflict of interest that both Moritz and Coffey have (their book). Their financial interest in book sales compromises balanced reporting. The BBC using public money to make a show that’s about keeping Moritz and Coffey’s books from being pulped is…troubling, to say the least.

Complaints | Contact the BBC

These pages have information about how to complain to the BBC, with links to the BBC’s Complaints Framework, the BBC’s regulator Ofcom and regular reports about complaints. If you would like to understand how we collect and use personal data, please re...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints

OP posts:
Kittybythelighthouse · 14/08/2025 11:42

“And I’d argue with anyone saying that this piece of evidence wasnt all that important. It was. It took hundreds of pages and squished it into a handy visual, much easier to digest and looked hella damning. And it was shown over and over and over during the trial.”

Exactly. Funny thing in this case is that each time something is dismantled there’ll be people saying “that wasn’t important to the convictions anyway!” despite that very thing having been darkly pointed to as ‘proof’ of guilt right up until that point. Then we’re told “you have to look at the evidence as a whole!”

Even when all we have left is…what? I’m actually struggling to think of something that hasn’t already been dismantled or at least heavily questioned by superior experts.

OP posts:
Kittybythelighthouse · 14/08/2025 11:47

Londonmummy66 · 14/08/2025 11:21

I'm so sorry bananas. Thank you for sharing that. I sympathise with the guilt. Far less distressing but DD was born with a mild form of spina bifida. I blame myself for that as I was very very sick during the pregnancy and often could keep nothing down (including the supplements). DD now has a spinal fracture that the SB contributed to and I am constantly asking myself whether it would have been the case if I'd kicked up more of a fuss about the morning noon and night sickness.

I’m so sorry for you. I was miserably sick right the way through when I was carrying my son. I wasn’t as bad as you by the sounds of it, but I can empathise. It must be terrible feeling like your daughter’s condition was your fault. It isn’t your fault though, because it wasn’t your fault you couldn’t stop throwing up. It’s not like that was a choice. ❤️

OP posts:
Kittybythelighthouse · 14/08/2025 11:50

Typicalwave · 14/08/2025 01:03

i can’t remember - I think it was the Times article linked earlier over Mike Hall’s concerns. I could have misread it - but yhd way I read it, it read as if one of the original pathologists gave evidence at the trial

They didn’t. Lots of coverage of this case misses that the pathologist at trial was not one of the pathologists who performed the actual post mortems, none of which (as you know I think) found anything suspicious.

OP posts:
Kittybythelighthouse · 14/08/2025 11:54

Oftenaddled · 14/08/2025 11:03

Something people like Moritz and Coffey don't seem to understand about the CCRC reports is that you give the CCRC what's appropriate for the stage they are at and add to it.

Here's an example. There's a lot in that BBC article about what happened to baby O. Moritz and Coffey, incidentally, exaggerate the difference in views by failing to mention that the defence (and original pathologist) experts all had variants on the same narrative: the child had a liver hematoma which ruptured, possibly exacerbated by the needle aspiration which the defence experts were told about, but the original pathologist wasn't. So back in 2016, it was already established he had a liver hematoma in the only review ever done by someone examining his body.

Okay. So where did the liver hematoma come from? They can be spontaneous, but they are often caused by birth injury, so if you see one in a child a few days old, you might start by saying, very likely caused by birth injury. (This is what the international panel said, not, as Panorama claims, that there definitely was a birth injury. Their explanation doesn't rely on a birth injury at all).

But worth checking further, the possible birth injury? Of course. And this is where the international panel has pointed out that either material hasn't been shared with the defence or nobody has looked at the obstetric records, so information on the mother's health, the pregnancy and the delivery haven't been considered in any depth.

The international experts asked the police for these records and haven't received them.

So, where does the CCRC come in? They don't just read the information you give them. They have the power to request evidence like this from the police, prosecution, hospital etc. The current reports are the most likely causes of death, based on the information given to defence and (unless there's been a massive disclosure failure) prosecution experts. But if the obstetric records clear anything up - like the exact source of baby O's hematoma - they'll obviously be refined to reflect that.

In these circumstances, I think it's fairly clear why one wouldn't publish a first round of reports to the CCRC.

Shoo Lee's press conferences, in my opinion, struck the right balance.

Edited

This is important stuff. Thanks for this.

OP posts:
Oftenaddled · 14/08/2025 11:59

Kittybythelighthouse · 14/08/2025 11:50

They didn’t. Lots of coverage of this case misses that the pathologist at trial was not one of the pathologists who performed the actual post mortems, none of which (as you know I think) found anything suspicious.

And the original pathologists are the only people who saw the bodies, of course.

Their findings line up well with the international expert panel's, considering that they didn't have access to the full medical records. Unfortunately we know that Chester consultants didn't share all relevant details in their reports to the pathologists, as Stephanie Davies, who did the review of Letby's cases for the Cheshire Police, explained:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jul/14/former-senior-coroners-officer-says-lucy-letby-has-suffered-miscarriage-of-justice

Oftenaddled · 14/08/2025 12:04

Kittybythelighthouse · 14/08/2025 11:54

This is important stuff. Thanks for this.

An additional bonus? Those obstetric records will surely be some of that fabled new evidence we hear so much about.

A just retired obstetrician called Jim Thornton started a blog to go through what we knew of the cases one by one a couple of months ago. He stopped because Lucy Letby's defence team contacted him and asked him to work with them and of course shared privileged information. Even what he wrote is a good introduction, though:

https://ripe-tomato.org/2025/06/04/lucy-letby-obstetric-intro-summary/

Kittybythelighthouse · 14/08/2025 12:08

@Oftenaddled

”the lab that did the (insulin) testing produced a similar result from a normal sample in error during a quality control test just a month after one of these children's results came back!
unherd.com/newsroom/were-the-blood-tests-in-lucy-letbys-conviction-flawed/
"the lab that tested Baby L’s blood underwent a routine assessment a few weeks later, which found it exaggerated the level of insulin in a quality control sample by almost 800%."

I’d actually forgotten about that!

Were the blood tests in Lucy Letby's conviction flawed?

Lucy Letby’s conviction and whole life sentence for attempting to murder the infant known as Baby L rests on a test on a single sample of his blood taken at 3.40pm on 9 April 2016, the second day of his life. A vulnerable twin who had failed to thrive...

https://unherd.com/newsroom/were-the-blood-tests-in-lucy-letbys-conviction-flawed/

OP posts:
Kittybythelighthouse · 14/08/2025 12:12

Oftenaddled · 14/08/2025 12:04

An additional bonus? Those obstetric records will surely be some of that fabled new evidence we hear so much about.

A just retired obstetrician called Jim Thornton started a blog to go through what we knew of the cases one by one a couple of months ago. He stopped because Lucy Letby's defence team contacted him and asked him to work with them and of course shared privileged information. Even what he wrote is a good introduction, though:

https://ripe-tomato.org/2025/06/04/lucy-letby-obstetric-intro-summary/

Yes! It would have to be new evidence. Hard to see how it wouldn’t be.

It’s crazy that the whole trial happened without anyone realising that obstetric information might be somewhat important. It’s hugely important. The baby doesn’t appear fully formed like Venus in a clamshell. Neonatal problems originate during pregnancy.

OP posts:
Mirabai · 14/08/2025 12:16

Newbutoldfather · 14/08/2025 09:17

@Mirabai ,

‘We have no idea how many neonatologists C&M have spoken to as they won’t go on record, it may be none.’

I was referring to BBC InDepth. They clearly asked a number of experts.

C&M = Coffey and Moritz. Responsible for the Panorama. The “In Depth” article is written by Coffey.

Oftenaddled · 14/08/2025 12:18

Kittybythelighthouse · 14/08/2025 12:12

Yes! It would have to be new evidence. Hard to see how it wouldn’t be.

It’s crazy that the whole trial happened without anyone realising that obstetric information might be somewhat important. It’s hugely important. The baby doesn’t appear fully formed like Venus in a clamshell. Neonatal problems originate during pregnancy.

Yes, and all but one of Letby's alleged victims died well within the first week of life.

Typicalwave · 14/08/2025 12:26

Oftenaddled · 14/08/2025 11:59

And the original pathologists are the only people who saw the bodies, of course.

Their findings line up well with the international expert panel's, considering that they didn't have access to the full medical records. Unfortunately we know that Chester consultants didn't share all relevant details in their reports to the pathologists, as Stephanie Davies, who did the review of Letby's cases for the Cheshire Police, explained:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jul/14/former-senior-coroners-officer-says-lucy-letby-has-suffered-miscarriage-of-justice

‘Responding to Davies’ concerns about the Lucy Letby case, a Cheshire police spokesperson described Davies’s former position as “an administrative role within the Cheshire coroner’s office” and said she was “neither formally medically, nor legally trained”.’

An administrative role - so they took a punt and pulled a lass from the typing pool to cast a glance over records and then tossed a coin to make a decision 🙄

Cheshire police need to give their heads a wobble - they know their investigation was shit and now they’ll pull down any professional speaking out against them.

Kittybythelighthouse · 14/08/2025 12:46

Typicalwave · 14/08/2025 12:26

‘Responding to Davies’ concerns about the Lucy Letby case, a Cheshire police spokesperson described Davies’s former position as “an administrative role within the Cheshire coroner’s office” and said she was “neither formally medically, nor legally trained”.’

An administrative role - so they took a punt and pulled a lass from the typing pool to cast a glance over records and then tossed a coin to make a decision 🙄

Cheshire police need to give their heads a wobble - they know their investigation was shit and now they’ll pull down any professional speaking out against them.

“Cheshire police need to give their heads a wobble - they know their investigation was shit and now they’ll pull down any professional speaking out against them.”

Exactly this. Cheshire Police are bumbling idiots who just would be ridiculous if it wasn’t concerning in the extreme that a police force can and would behave in this way.

And they got a policing award for this nonsense!

OP posts:
Kittybythelighthouse · 14/08/2025 12:48

Mirabai · 14/08/2025 12:16

C&M = Coffey and Moritz. Responsible for the Panorama. The “In Depth” article is written by Coffey.

Some people are under the impression that ‘In Depth’ means an in depth investigation, rather than ‘In Depth’ simply being the name for the section of the website with slightly longer articles.

That article is merely a written preview of what’s in the Panorama episode. It was published as a partner to the show to get more viewers. It’s not like Coffey held back some juicy info for a website article a few days later.

OP posts:
placemats · 14/08/2025 13:01

Baby O wasn't premature, two weeks overdue, a big baby and a long and difficult birth resulting in an emergency C section. There has to be a certain amount of injuries to the baby in that scenario - no mention of ventouse or forceps.

Oftenaddled · 14/08/2025 13:10

placemats · 14/08/2025 13:01

Baby O wasn't premature, two weeks overdue, a big baby and a long and difficult birth resulting in an emergency C section. There has to be a certain amount of injuries to the baby in that scenario - no mention of ventouse or forceps.

No, I think you're mixing baby O up with another baby there - he was more than 32 weeks so not very premature, but premature, and he was delivered by Caesarean.

Maybe baby D?

placemats · 14/08/2025 13:19

Ah okay thanks. Yes I have mixed it up. Apologies.

Hotflushesandchilblains · 14/08/2025 14:28

Firefly1987 · 13/08/2025 22:47

But the only reason you believe the new experts is because you weren't at the trial so you think it was flawed. Those that believe her guilty don't think it was flawed. I could understand it if they wrapped the trial up in a month but it was 10 months! And the jury were out for weeks. I genuinely believe it was held to the best standard possible considering how complex it was.

She had a chance to call an expert for her defence-it's not the system's fault she didn't.

Dewi Evans evidence has been shown to be a misunderstanding of the research he based it on by the very person whose research it was. Added to the fact is that Evans, who presented himself as an expert, is not a neonatologist, which was not clear to me during that trial. And the professors whose research was so key during the trial is, and in addition composed a panel of 16 people who are all experts in this field who ALL disputed the findings that these were murders. How you can not see that this is a cause for concern - let alone all the other things mentioned on this thread - makes me think you are being willfully blind here.

People have their convictions overturned all the time when new evidence or new understandings come to light - DNA evidence for example. So nothing happening here is unusual.

As for why the defense was conducted as it was, there is an excellent post upthread with a link to a legal blog about it. Its simply not good enough to say 'oh well, the defense should have done better'.

As I said before, people who mention the parents seem to be trying to shut down discussion by appealing to feelings, in the mistaken belief that anyone who is worried about this does not feel for these parents. Which I am feeling in response to your posts. I have nothing but empathy for them. And I am not convinced LL is innocent. I simply dont believe that the process that found her guilty was conducted to a high enough standard.

Given that we all live within the systems shown to be deeply flawed during this process, we should all be concerned and demanding better.

Kittybythelighthouse · 14/08/2025 14:35

Hotflushesandchilblains · 14/08/2025 14:28

Dewi Evans evidence has been shown to be a misunderstanding of the research he based it on by the very person whose research it was. Added to the fact is that Evans, who presented himself as an expert, is not a neonatologist, which was not clear to me during that trial. And the professors whose research was so key during the trial is, and in addition composed a panel of 16 people who are all experts in this field who ALL disputed the findings that these were murders. How you can not see that this is a cause for concern - let alone all the other things mentioned on this thread - makes me think you are being willfully blind here.

People have their convictions overturned all the time when new evidence or new understandings come to light - DNA evidence for example. So nothing happening here is unusual.

As for why the defense was conducted as it was, there is an excellent post upthread with a link to a legal blog about it. Its simply not good enough to say 'oh well, the defense should have done better'.

As I said before, people who mention the parents seem to be trying to shut down discussion by appealing to feelings, in the mistaken belief that anyone who is worried about this does not feel for these parents. Which I am feeling in response to your posts. I have nothing but empathy for them. And I am not convinced LL is innocent. I simply dont believe that the process that found her guilty was conducted to a high enough standard.

Given that we all live within the systems shown to be deeply flawed during this process, we should all be concerned and demanding better.

Well said! Process is not more important than justice.

OP posts:
Kittybythelighthouse · 14/08/2025 16:52

Professor Jane L Hutton, Department of Statistics, The University of Warwick has sent a complaint to the BBC about the intubation dislodgement statistics misused in Panorama. Images of her complaint attached.

“Dear BBC complaints team
Panorama - Lucy Letby: Who(m) to believe?
I have been asked to comment on the numbers discussed by Judith Moritz and Jonathan Coffey on unplanned extubations (UE, accidental dislodgment of endotracheal tubes) at the Liverpool Women's Hospital (LWH). They essentially repeated information which Mr Richard Baker KC gave to the Thirlwall Inquiry on 12 September 2024:
...You will hear evidence that it generally occurs in less than 1% of shifts. As a side note, you will hear that an audit carried out by Liverpool Women's Hospital recorded that, while Letby was working there, dislodgment of tubes occurred in 40% of the shifts she worked...."

The evidence was not provided.

The judicial colleges endorse the principles that' 'When conclusions based on statistical science are drawn from data, it is crucial that the data and the reasoning supporting those conclusions are transparent" [The use of statistics in legal proceedings: a primer for courts 2020 Royal Society and Royal Society of Scotland]. No information from the LWH audit of UEs (the definition of dislodgment of andotrachael tubes, design, conduct or analysis of the audit) has been released to Letby or her defence team.

The journalists said that LWH used "ventilated shifts", a 12 hour period during which a baby is ventilated (rather than the usual ventilated days). They used the assumption of 10 ventilated babies on a unit for five days, 20 shifts, and stated that the UE rate was less than 1%. A systematic review published in 2012 [da Silva et al, Respir Care 2013;58(7):1237â1245] reported:
"UE is a common event in the NICU"; the median UEs/100 intubation days was 1.98.
This is 4% of ventilated shifts; the authors note that note as UEs are recorded.

The journalist claimed Letby worked about 50 shifts, without any reference to the number of babies ventilated, and said 'the (sic!) tube came out on around 20 of them. It's about 40%.

This is dreadfully bad arithmetic and seriously misleading journalist. There are 24 high dependency or intensive care cots at LWH. I have to make assumptions, in the absence of transparency. Suppose only ten of the 24 cots were occupied by infants who had breathing tubes - that gives 500 ventilator shifts, which would give the median rate of 4% of ventilated shifts.

A further obviously misleading element is the implications that the infants were under Letby's care, but no nurse would care for several intensive care patients.

Methods for identfication of variations from the norm were first proposed a century ago [A Brief History of Statistical Process Control, 2021, D Seland, Quality magazine].

The 2011 Department of Health and Healthcare Quality Improvement Partnership guidance on "Detection and management of outliers" states "The statistical analyses involved should be carried out by people with appropriate statistical expertise and experience." The journalists broadcast seriously erroneous information.

I request that you publish a formal apology and correction.

You could ask Tim Harford of BBC Radio 4's More or less to assist you in finding an experienced and qualified statistician. I know that the Crown Prosecution Service did not wish to pursue inquiries into the validity of the statistical evidence.”

(Via Dr Philip Hammond on X)

Lucy Letby: Have you changed your mind?
Lucy Letby: Have you changed your mind?
OP posts:
Typicalwave · 14/08/2025 17:02

Kittybythelighthouse · 14/08/2025 16:52

Professor Jane L Hutton, Department of Statistics, The University of Warwick has sent a complaint to the BBC about the intubation dislodgement statistics misused in Panorama. Images of her complaint attached.

“Dear BBC complaints team
Panorama - Lucy Letby: Who(m) to believe?
I have been asked to comment on the numbers discussed by Judith Moritz and Jonathan Coffey on unplanned extubations (UE, accidental dislodgment of endotracheal tubes) at the Liverpool Women's Hospital (LWH). They essentially repeated information which Mr Richard Baker KC gave to the Thirlwall Inquiry on 12 September 2024:
...You will hear evidence that it generally occurs in less than 1% of shifts. As a side note, you will hear that an audit carried out by Liverpool Women's Hospital recorded that, while Letby was working there, dislodgment of tubes occurred in 40% of the shifts she worked...."

The evidence was not provided.

The judicial colleges endorse the principles that' 'When conclusions based on statistical science are drawn from data, it is crucial that the data and the reasoning supporting those conclusions are transparent" [The use of statistics in legal proceedings: a primer for courts 2020 Royal Society and Royal Society of Scotland]. No information from the LWH audit of UEs (the definition of dislodgment of andotrachael tubes, design, conduct or analysis of the audit) has been released to Letby or her defence team.

The journalists said that LWH used "ventilated shifts", a 12 hour period during which a baby is ventilated (rather than the usual ventilated days). They used the assumption of 10 ventilated babies on a unit for five days, 20 shifts, and stated that the UE rate was less than 1%. A systematic review published in 2012 [da Silva et al, Respir Care 2013;58(7):1237â1245] reported:
"UE is a common event in the NICU"; the median UEs/100 intubation days was 1.98.
This is 4% of ventilated shifts; the authors note that note as UEs are recorded.

The journalist claimed Letby worked about 50 shifts, without any reference to the number of babies ventilated, and said 'the (sic!) tube came out on around 20 of them. It's about 40%.

This is dreadfully bad arithmetic and seriously misleading journalist. There are 24 high dependency or intensive care cots at LWH. I have to make assumptions, in the absence of transparency. Suppose only ten of the 24 cots were occupied by infants who had breathing tubes - that gives 500 ventilator shifts, which would give the median rate of 4% of ventilated shifts.

A further obviously misleading element is the implications that the infants were under Letby's care, but no nurse would care for several intensive care patients.

Methods for identfication of variations from the norm were first proposed a century ago [A Brief History of Statistical Process Control, 2021, D Seland, Quality magazine].

The 2011 Department of Health and Healthcare Quality Improvement Partnership guidance on "Detection and management of outliers" states "The statistical analyses involved should be carried out by people with appropriate statistical expertise and experience." The journalists broadcast seriously erroneous information.

I request that you publish a formal apology and correction.

You could ask Tim Harford of BBC Radio 4's More or less to assist you in finding an experienced and qualified statistician. I know that the Crown Prosecution Service did not wish to pursue inquiries into the validity of the statistical evidence.”

(Via Dr Philip Hammond on X)

Edited

Good.

I was just about to post about Jane Hutton. Surely, when the CPS told (allegedly) the police to drop Jane Hutton who’d been assisting in understanding the statistics, and then failed to disclose what Jane had contributed in the investigation, this action could be considered perverting course of justice?

Or am I misunderstanding the law?

PinkTonic · 14/08/2025 17:48

Typicalwave · 14/08/2025 17:02

Good.

I was just about to post about Jane Hutton. Surely, when the CPS told (allegedly) the police to drop Jane Hutton who’d been assisting in understanding the statistics, and then failed to disclose what Jane had contributed in the investigation, this action could be considered perverting course of justice?

Or am I misunderstanding the law?

John Sweeney dealt with this in episode 3 of his “was there ever a crime podcast” when he spoke to former Assistant Chief Constable Steve Watts. It’s a good listen.

Catpuss66 · 14/08/2025 18:17

Frequency · 12/08/2025 19:13

Actually, the only ones that were not robbed was Dewi Evan’s who made over £700k & Dr J, making money on talk shows both Lucy, her family & friends, the parents & their wider family have all lost.

I wonder what motive Dewi Evans would have for falsifying/deliberately misrepresenting evidence?

Ego

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