Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Lucy Letby: have you changed your mind?

1000 replies

Kittybythelighthouse · 09/08/2025 20:42

I’ve been sensing a shift in opinions on the Lucy Letby case and I’m interested in hearing from people who have changed their mind either way.

Did you used to think she was guilty and now you don’t, or you aren’t sure? What changed your mind?

Also vice versa: did you used to think she was not guilty but then changed your mind to guilty? What convinced you?

The reason I’m using the term ‘not guilty’ rather than ‘innocent’ is because courts don’t prove innocence. Not guilty is a legal conclusion about whether or not the state met its burden of proof.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
EmmaB13 · 11/08/2025 16:15

GentleNavel · 11/08/2025 12:00

I believe Letby is probably a killer but technically "not guilty" because her conviction sounds unsafe. So the poll is too binary.

My credentials: I hold a first in Criminology (bachelors) and a doctoral degree in psychology, but to be clear not forensic psychology. I am not qualified to comment on the medical evidence but my lay opinion is that it sounds there may be enough reasonable doubt and therefore, by that burden of proof, Letby is "innocent". However, showing possible alternatives is not the same as Letby not being a killer.

Firstly, Barrister Mark McDonald obviously has ulterior motives. There are dozens/hundreds of unsafe convictions. Why has he got such a bee in his bonnet about Letby? My opinion is he is ego-centric and primary motivation is to make a name for himself. He has his eye on a gravy train of fame, television panels, and book deals. Very much a self-serving man in the pretence of rescuing an innocent person from a miscarriage of justice.

Something I can comment on with more certainty albeit still subjective is that the psychological evidence, from what I know of it, chills me to my bones. Admittedly it is circumstantial and certainly not enough to convict someone.

Thinking of Letby from an "object relations theory" and an understanding of "narcissistic supply". I believe Letby's motive was the playing God theory, or perhaps a sort of munchausens by proxy.

I understand Letby grew up being told she is a miracle baby saved by a nurse. If this is true, it is not coincidence she decided to become a neonatal nurse. These types of events do become a key driver in someone's life, I have seen it many times. Moreover, like most serial killers, you don't go from nothing to serial killing. So if this fact about her birth is true, in my opinion Letby started practicing "saving babies" and this became a big part of her fantasy/phantasy life.

The babies are like objects in her ego and sense of self. Everything about them, the parents, the nurses and doctors, the drama, this is feeding Letby in a narcissistic way. Fuel for her ego. This for me is the explanation for her obsessional searching for families on facebook (both survivors and the deceased), and why during the trial it was reported she showed a numb affect when speaking about the deaths but then emotional lability when she referred to how she was affected.

Again, my information on this is all second hand and there may be more detail on the psychological aspects I am missing. But just from the face value and having worked with a number of offenders that deny their crimes, I am confident to say she is probably a killer.

Edited

This is an interesting post. I agree with you about the poll and appreciate your experience and qualifications.

However it does feel that you’ve come up with a psychological profile and motive to match the verdict/what you want to believe.

My husband and I are both autistic and we probably both act rather strange at times. Probably why I’m one the people who would question the verdict.

I’ve done weird stuff like searching for people online, writing down strange things, getting a bit obsessional about things, probably come across as quite cold and inappropriate at times. I’m most certainly not a killer though, you’d have an absolute field day with my character profile if you wanted to accuse me of something.

Oatcat · 11/08/2025 16:17

SeriousFaffing · 11/08/2025 15:58

@EmmaB13 This is the most bizarre thing though because at any given moment you all appear prepared to say “we’re not saying she’s innocent” and yet the OP and poll is guilty or not guilty.

If we are going to face the squeamishness of what this actually boils down to, how do you feel about potentially - yes potentially - undermining the conviction of a guilty woman? What does that look like on the other side?

And yes, the tone of the thread is aggressive - contrary at the very best. This hasn’t really been a discussion.

Edited

At 14.22 and 14.58 the OP outlined the concerns she had with links.

I'd be interested to know - why do you think she is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? I watched the recent documentary and found the evidence from Dr Shoo Lee compelling.

Viviennemary · 11/08/2025 16:18

Not proven might be a possible conclusion. I think you probably are guilty but there isnt enough proof.

nomas · 11/08/2025 16:19

Kittybythelighthouse · 11/08/2025 15:57

You keep talking vaguely in a critical tone like this but never giving any examples.

“I would love to find it again once the CCRC find there is no reason to refer the case for an appeal.”

You can use Google Alerts for key phrases like "Lucy Letby CCRC decision" or "Criminal Cases Review Commission”. Save this thread link in your notes or reminders app. When you get the alert about the decision, that’s your trigger to check the thread.

You should do that 👍🏻

You can use Google Alerts for key phrases like "Lucy Letby CCRC decision" or "Criminal Cases Review Commission”. Save this thread link in your notes or reminders app. When you get the alert about the decision, that’s your trigger to check the thread.

You should do that 👍🏻

Someone asked for an example of why I described the pro-Lucys as patronising. See above in bold as an example

EyeLevelStick · 11/08/2025 16:20

SeriousFaffing · 11/08/2025 15:58

@EmmaB13 This is the most bizarre thing though because at any given moment you all appear prepared to say “we’re not saying she’s innocent” and yet the OP and poll is guilty or not guilty.

If we are going to face the squeamishness of what this actually boils down to, how do you feel about potentially - yes potentially - undermining the conviction of a guilty woman? What does that look like on the other side?

And yes, the tone of the thread is aggressive - contrary at the very best. This hasn’t really been a discussion.

Edited

I would rather a guilty person go free than an innocent one be locked up forever.

There’s a staggering amount of evidence that there has been a miscarriage of justice and I am close to being convinced that there were no murders. If there were no murders, LL is not guilty of anything more than being weird and possibly unprofessional.

The evidence needs to be reviewed again from the start to identify whether there’s a case to answer.

I don’t think this is aggressive or contrary? Some posters are frustrated with the “she’s obviously guilty because she was convicted” people who are totally missing the point.

EmmaB13 · 11/08/2025 16:24

SeriousFaffing · 11/08/2025 15:58

@EmmaB13 This is the most bizarre thing though because at any given moment you all appear prepared to say “we’re not saying she’s innocent” and yet the OP and poll is guilty or not guilty.

If we are going to face the squeamishness of what this actually boils down to, how do you feel about potentially - yes potentially - undermining the conviction of a guilty woman? What does that look like on the other side?

And yes, the tone of the thread is aggressive - contrary at the very best. This hasn’t really been a discussion.

Edited

The poll probably shouldn’t be guilty of not guilty and I’m pretty sure that the op has agreed with that.

I don’t particularly feel anything other than sadness for the parents who lost their children, but also a bit unnerved to think that there is any possibility that LL didn’t do what she is convicted of. I know that whatever happens none of us will ever know the truth 100%. The only person who knows the truth is LL herself.

It’s not wrong to want to discuss something that has been on the news and TV a lot.

Kittybythelighthouse · 11/08/2025 16:26

SeriousFaffing · 11/08/2025 15:58

@EmmaB13 This is the most bizarre thing though because at any given moment you all appear prepared to say “we’re not saying she’s innocent” and yet the OP and poll is guilty or not guilty.

If we are going to face the squeamishness of what this actually boils down to, how do you feel about potentially - yes potentially - undermining the conviction of a guilty woman? What does that look like on the other side?

And yes, the tone of the thread is aggressive - contrary at the very best. This hasn’t really been a discussion.

Edited

“and yet the OP and poll is guilty or not guilty.”

I’m honestly bored of having to endlessly repeat that this is how the burden of proof works in law. British courts do not find anyone ‘innocent’. ‘Not guilty’ does not mean innocent. It means that the burden of proof has not been met and as a result there is reasonable doubt. If you feel that the case needs to be reviewed then you have reasonable doubt. That IS by definition a ‘not guilty’ position in British courts.

“If we are going to face the squeamishness of what this actually boils down to, how do you feel about potentially - yes potentially - undermining the conviction of a guilty woman? What does that look like on the other side?”

The presumption of innocence is a core principle in UK law and is explicitly protected under Article 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998 (mirroring the European Convention on Human Rights) In English Common Law going back to at least the 15th century, juries were urged to err on the side of acquittal if uncertain. This is one of the foundational pillars of British justice, arguably it’s the most important one. This principle is a huge reason why British justice has always had such an excellent reputation worldwide. It’s what keeps us away from the savagery of literal witch trials. Arguing to abandon it is a very hot take, but to answer your question:

“how do you feel about potentially - yes potentially - undermining the conviction of a guilty woman? What does that look like on the other side?”

First, no one has suggested simply letting her out based on vibes, there have been multiple credible and testable in-depth challenges to the conviction from a variety of esteemed and relevant and independent experts. At this stage I don’t think there remains a shred of evidence which hasn’t been credibly challenged. This has been going on for at least a year.

Collectively this has amounted to a thorough and rigorous challenge from credible sources who have no skin in the game. What is being asked for is that the evidence be properly reviewed, with credible expert oversight, so that the conviction can either be made safe or vacated.

In that context if she is again found to be guilty then she will stay where she is but the public will be reassured that justice has been fair and rigorous. If she is found not guilty then she will not be a guilty woman when she is released. She will have been proven innocent. It’ll be the exact same as anyone else who is charged with murder not being convicted. You probably aren’t even aware of most of them.

“And yes, the tone of the thread is aggressive - contrary at the very best. This hasn’t really been a discussion.”

I disagree. There has been plenty of interesting discussion for most of the thread. It’s a debate. Challenge (respectful and in good faith, ideally evidenced and factual) is absolutely fine from both sides. It is only a handful of people that I see popping in just to make inflammatory statements, fling insults, jeer or huff if they aren’t simply agreed with without challenge. None of that matters in the wider context of the conversation here though.

OP posts:
EmmaB13 · 11/08/2025 16:30

Kittybythelighthouse · 11/08/2025 16:26

“and yet the OP and poll is guilty or not guilty.”

I’m honestly bored of having to endlessly repeat that this is how the burden of proof works in law. British courts do not find anyone ‘innocent’. ‘Not guilty’ does not mean innocent. It means that the burden of proof has not been met and as a result there is reasonable doubt. If you feel that the case needs to be reviewed then you have reasonable doubt. That IS by definition a ‘not guilty’ position in British courts.

“If we are going to face the squeamishness of what this actually boils down to, how do you feel about potentially - yes potentially - undermining the conviction of a guilty woman? What does that look like on the other side?”

The presumption of innocence is a core principle in UK law and is explicitly protected under Article 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998 (mirroring the European Convention on Human Rights) In English Common Law going back to at least the 15th century, juries were urged to err on the side of acquittal if uncertain. This is one of the foundational pillars of British justice, arguably it’s the most important one. This principle is a huge reason why British justice has always had such an excellent reputation worldwide. It’s what keeps us away from the savagery of literal witch trials. Arguing to abandon it is a very hot take, but to answer your question:

“how do you feel about potentially - yes potentially - undermining the conviction of a guilty woman? What does that look like on the other side?”

First, no one has suggested simply letting her out based on vibes, there have been multiple credible and testable in-depth challenges to the conviction from a variety of esteemed and relevant and independent experts. At this stage I don’t think there remains a shred of evidence which hasn’t been credibly challenged. This has been going on for at least a year.

Collectively this has amounted to a thorough and rigorous challenge from credible sources who have no skin in the game. What is being asked for is that the evidence be properly reviewed, with credible expert oversight, so that the conviction can either be made safe or vacated.

In that context if she is again found to be guilty then she will stay where she is but the public will be reassured that justice has been fair and rigorous. If she is found not guilty then she will not be a guilty woman when she is released. She will have been proven innocent. It’ll be the exact same as anyone else who is charged with murder not being convicted. You probably aren’t even aware of most of them.

“And yes, the tone of the thread is aggressive - contrary at the very best. This hasn’t really been a discussion.”

I disagree. There has been plenty of interesting discussion for most of the thread. It’s a debate. Challenge (respectful and in good faith, ideally evidenced and factual) is absolutely fine from both sides. It is only a handful of people that I see popping in just to make inflammatory statements, fling insults, jeer or huff if they aren’t simply agreed with without challenge. None of that matters in the wider context of the conversation here though.

Edited

Good post and I think that this thread has mostly been very respectful.

kkloo · 11/08/2025 16:32

@GentleNavel

Firstly, Barrister Mark McDonald obviously has ulterior motives. There are dozens/hundreds of unsafe convictions. Why has he got such a bee in his bonnet about Letby? My opinion is he is ego-centric and primary motivation is to make a name for himself. He has his eye on a gravy train of fame, television panels, and book deals. Very much a self-serving man in the pretence of rescuing an innocent person from a miscarriage of justice.

Why on earth do you ignore the most obvious answer about why he has got such a bee in his bonnet about Letby? That this case is particularly compelling because the evidence against her was so weak, and is absolutely not the kind of evidence that anyone would expect could put people away for a whole life tariff in 2023?
I'm sure part of him does think this will make a name for himself, it's a huge case, he has huge support from many experts, because of what I have just mentioned.

This for me is the explanation for her obsessional searching for families on facebook (both survivors and the deceased), and why during the trial it was reported she showed a numb affect when speaking about the deaths but then emotional lability when she referred to how she was affected.

Except the truth is that the searching wasn't that 'obsessional'. She searched for absolutely everyone on facebook, she had thousands of searches, the babies families only made up a small minority of them. So that doesn't fit with your theory at all, you make out her whole identity was about killing these babies, yet she didn't search for their families any more than she did any other random people.

Also Letby was medicated during the trial. And it is completely normal for people to feel more sorry for themselves and how they have been affected rather than for other people. The trial was around 7 years after the babies had died.

If ANYBODY was falsely accused of murder and had their freedom taken away then they are going to be more upset about the impact on themselves rather than on the people that they didn't kill. It's worrying how people try to pathologise normal behaviour.

Kittybythelighthouse · 11/08/2025 16:35

Viviennemary · 11/08/2025 16:18

Not proven might be a possible conclusion. I think you probably are guilty but there isnt enough proof.

In Scotland ‘Not Proven’ is a third choice available to juries, but it’s quite controversial. In this poll I didn’t want to divide all the votes that are for a review of the case, which is the important question here, so I chose to use the British JS binary of guilty/not guilty - if you have doubt (which you obviously do if you are in favour of a review) that means ‘not guilty’ in a legal context.

I didn’t think it would be controversial but in retrospect I’d phrase it differently as several people are confused by it. A lot of people think ‘not guilty’ means innocent, but it actually doesn’t. Anyway, I can’t change it now.

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 11/08/2025 16:39

Kittybythelighthouse · 11/08/2025 16:35

In Scotland ‘Not Proven’ is a third choice available to juries, but it’s quite controversial. In this poll I didn’t want to divide all the votes that are for a review of the case, which is the important question here, so I chose to use the British JS binary of guilty/not guilty - if you have doubt (which you obviously do if you are in favour of a review) that means ‘not guilty’ in a legal context.

I didn’t think it would be controversial but in retrospect I’d phrase it differently as several people are confused by it. A lot of people think ‘not guilty’ means innocent, but it actually doesn’t. Anyway, I can’t change it now.

Edited

I just hope they find enough evidence to prove she's guilty. All this weird obsessional behaviour around death is totally creepy.

Typicalwave · 11/08/2025 16:43

Viviennemary · 11/08/2025 16:39

I just hope they find enough evidence to prove she's guilty. All this weird obsessional behaviour around death is totally creepy.

The thread isn’t about death - it’s about concerns of a MoJ.

Kittybythelighthouse · 11/08/2025 16:44

Plastictreees · 11/08/2025 13:44

@GentleNavel I am also a psychologist and I agree with you, both on your interpretations of LL and the OP. It is very clear there is a rigid agenda here and any opposing or nuanced viewpoints are aggressively shut down by the OP.

I’m unwatching this thread. It’s a bit gross seeing all the posts defending a convicted baby killer.

”any opposing or nuanced viewpoints are aggressively shut down by the OP.”

This is simply untrue. If someone comes to the thread with a post and I have an argument against that post it’ll be fact based and respectful. The same can be true in reverse, and mostly has been. I have not “shut” anyone “down”.

It looks like you’re just characterising a debate as “aggressive” because it isn’t going the way you’d like it to. Being presented with facts you don’t like isn’t “aggression”.

OP posts:
Kittybythelighthouse · 11/08/2025 16:46

EmmaB13 · 11/08/2025 16:30

Good post and I think that this thread has mostly been very respectful.

Thank you. It really has been. Thanks for your contributions!

OP posts:
EmmaB13 · 11/08/2025 16:49

kkloo · 11/08/2025 16:32

@GentleNavel

Firstly, Barrister Mark McDonald obviously has ulterior motives. There are dozens/hundreds of unsafe convictions. Why has he got such a bee in his bonnet about Letby? My opinion is he is ego-centric and primary motivation is to make a name for himself. He has his eye on a gravy train of fame, television panels, and book deals. Very much a self-serving man in the pretence of rescuing an innocent person from a miscarriage of justice.

Why on earth do you ignore the most obvious answer about why he has got such a bee in his bonnet about Letby? That this case is particularly compelling because the evidence against her was so weak, and is absolutely not the kind of evidence that anyone would expect could put people away for a whole life tariff in 2023?
I'm sure part of him does think this will make a name for himself, it's a huge case, he has huge support from many experts, because of what I have just mentioned.

This for me is the explanation for her obsessional searching for families on facebook (both survivors and the deceased), and why during the trial it was reported she showed a numb affect when speaking about the deaths but then emotional lability when she referred to how she was affected.

Except the truth is that the searching wasn't that 'obsessional'. She searched for absolutely everyone on facebook, she had thousands of searches, the babies families only made up a small minority of them. So that doesn't fit with your theory at all, you make out her whole identity was about killing these babies, yet she didn't search for their families any more than she did any other random people.

Also Letby was medicated during the trial. And it is completely normal for people to feel more sorry for themselves and how they have been affected rather than for other people. The trial was around 7 years after the babies had died.

If ANYBODY was falsely accused of murder and had their freedom taken away then they are going to be more upset about the impact on themselves rather than on the people that they didn't kill. It's worrying how people try to pathologise normal behaviour.

Agreed.

Am I the only other person who looks people up on Facebook? I’ve done it loads tbh. Old school friends, work colleagues, old uni people, even parents from my children’s school. I’m a nosey bitch. Dh does it too.

Also, if she hadn’t killed the babies, would she get emotional speaking about the deaths? Being a nurse presumably she would have seen all sorts and would deal with it at the time.

Friends and family I know that are nurses can be quite hard faced and matter of fact and when speaking about death.

My husband is very unemotional, the only time I’ve ever heard his voice crack is when he’s been a bit scared.

Early3Rise · 11/08/2025 16:51

My mind hasn't changed as I've always maintained there has been no proof of guilt and she's being used as a scapegoat for shit NHS care

placemats · 11/08/2025 17:08

GentleNavel · 11/08/2025 12:00

I believe Letby is probably a killer but technically "not guilty" because her conviction sounds unsafe. So the poll is too binary.

My credentials: I hold a first in Criminology (bachelors) and a doctoral degree in psychology, but to be clear not forensic psychology. I am not qualified to comment on the medical evidence but my lay opinion is that it sounds there may be enough reasonable doubt and therefore, by that burden of proof, Letby is "innocent". However, showing possible alternatives is not the same as Letby not being a killer.

Firstly, Barrister Mark McDonald obviously has ulterior motives. There are dozens/hundreds of unsafe convictions. Why has he got such a bee in his bonnet about Letby? My opinion is he is ego-centric and primary motivation is to make a name for himself. He has his eye on a gravy train of fame, television panels, and book deals. Very much a self-serving man in the pretence of rescuing an innocent person from a miscarriage of justice.

Something I can comment on with more certainty albeit still subjective is that the psychological evidence, from what I know of it, chills me to my bones. Admittedly it is circumstantial and certainly not enough to convict someone.

Thinking of Letby from an "object relations theory" and an understanding of "narcissistic supply". I believe Letby's motive was the playing God theory, or perhaps a sort of munchausens by proxy.

I understand Letby grew up being told she is a miracle baby saved by a nurse. If this is true, it is not coincidence she decided to become a neonatal nurse. These types of events do become a key driver in someone's life, I have seen it many times. Moreover, like most serial killers, you don't go from nothing to serial killing. So if this fact about her birth is true, in my opinion Letby started practicing "saving babies" and this became a big part of her fantasy/phantasy life.

The babies are like objects in her ego and sense of self. Everything about them, the parents, the nurses and doctors, the drama, this is feeding Letby in a narcissistic way. Fuel for her ego. This for me is the explanation for her obsessional searching for families on facebook (both survivors and the deceased), and why during the trial it was reported she showed a numb affect when speaking about the deaths but then emotional lability when she referred to how she was affected.

Again, my information on this is all second hand and there may be more detail on the psychological aspects I am missing. But just from the face value and having worked with a number of offenders that deny their crimes, I am confident to say she is probably a killer.

Edited

This is a post that demonstrates confirmation bias.

placemats · 11/08/2025 17:10

EmmaB13 · 11/08/2025 16:49

Agreed.

Am I the only other person who looks people up on Facebook? I’ve done it loads tbh. Old school friends, work colleagues, old uni people, even parents from my children’s school. I’m a nosey bitch. Dh does it too.

Also, if she hadn’t killed the babies, would she get emotional speaking about the deaths? Being a nurse presumably she would have seen all sorts and would deal with it at the time.

Friends and family I know that are nurses can be quite hard faced and matter of fact and when speaking about death.

My husband is very unemotional, the only time I’ve ever heard his voice crack is when he’s been a bit scared.

I have to say that when I go to look up people now on Facebook I do so with caution following this case and see if they have an account elsewhere.

Kittybythelighthouse · 11/08/2025 17:21

EmmaB13 · 11/08/2025 16:49

Agreed.

Am I the only other person who looks people up on Facebook? I’ve done it loads tbh. Old school friends, work colleagues, old uni people, even parents from my children’s school. I’m a nosey bitch. Dh does it too.

Also, if she hadn’t killed the babies, would she get emotional speaking about the deaths? Being a nurse presumably she would have seen all sorts and would deal with it at the time.

Friends and family I know that are nurses can be quite hard faced and matter of fact and when speaking about death.

My husband is very unemotional, the only time I’ve ever heard his voice crack is when he’s been a bit scared.

I have done but very rarely, but tons of people seem to do it a lot, so you’re not alone!

People take issue with LL searching for the parents, which I understand but in context she did this a handful of times vs her overall searches. For me while that’s not something I think a nurse should do I can understand it from a human perspective.

If you’ve been seeing these people across a period of time, in some cases months, you might wonder about them down the line, I don’t think that’s monstrous or evidence of anything, particularly not serial murder.

The line between strictly professional behaviour and human connection is blurred for front line workers like nurses.

The parents also had a human interest in the nurses, including Letby (before they were told she killed their baby obvs). One set of parents wanted her to be godmother. Others brought flowers and gift to the hospital for the nurses.

As I say, the line between strictly professional behaviour and human connection is naturally blurred for nurses, who deal with people in some of the most emotional moments of their lives.

OP posts:
FrippEnos · 11/08/2025 17:29

I still think that the conviction is unsafe and have done since I first came across the case.

I also think that the thread has been very good, and not at all aggressive. Points have been made and either agreed with or rebuffed with information form sources.

Its a shame that more threads don't remain as civil as this one.

placemats · 11/08/2025 17:29

Having worked in dementia care, I do often wonder what happened to the people that I cared for - left months before Covid. That's 5 years ago. I've met fellow care workers since who have updated me on some - sadly the outcome was predictable. You do get involved emotionally for those you care for.

PinkTonic · 11/08/2025 17:31

nomas · 11/08/2025 16:19

You can use Google Alerts for key phrases like "Lucy Letby CCRC decision" or "Criminal Cases Review Commission”. Save this thread link in your notes or reminders app. When you get the alert about the decision, that’s your trigger to check the thread.

You should do that 👍🏻

Someone asked for an example of why I described the pro-Lucys as patronising. See above in bold as an example

The grandstanding and egos on this thread are a riot. I would love to find it again once the CCRC find there is no reason to refer the case for an appeal

the pro-Lucys

It’s very evident who is patronising. And combative.

Kittybythelighthouse · 11/08/2025 17:32

Viviennemary · 11/08/2025 16:39

I just hope they find enough evidence to prove she's guilty. All this weird obsessional behaviour around death is totally creepy.

“I just hope they find enough evidence to prove she's guilty.”

All anyone is asking is that she be proven guilty, properly, if she’s to be locked up for life. You won’t see any arguments from me if that’s what happens - scout’s honour. I just want to be shown that our justice system isn’t a clownshow, which currently appears to be the case looking at the past few years. Frankly that should scare the sh*t out of us all.

I have to say though that at this stage I very much doubt that there will be some evidence produced which at last proves that she definitely did it. If it exists I don’t know why they didn’t either find or produce it sooner.

I don’t know what you mean by “All this weird obsessional behaviour around death is totally creepy.” where? In this thread?

OP posts:
nomas · 11/08/2025 17:33

PinkTonic · 11/08/2025 17:31

The grandstanding and egos on this thread are a riot. I would love to find it again once the CCRC find there is no reason to refer the case for an appeal

the pro-Lucys

It’s very evident who is patronising. And combative.

Which part of that was patronising?

The post to me was patronising and combative, no?

Kittybythelighthouse · 11/08/2025 17:34

FrippEnos · 11/08/2025 17:29

I still think that the conviction is unsafe and have done since I first came across the case.

I also think that the thread has been very good, and not at all aggressive. Points have been made and either agreed with or rebuffed with information form sources.

Its a shame that more threads don't remain as civil as this one.

Thank you and I agree. There has been lots of interesting discussion and mostly very civil.

OP posts:
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread