Lucy Letby: have you changed your mind?

[Kittybythelighthouse]

I’ve been sensing a shift in opinions on the Lucy Letby case and I’m interested in hearing from people who have changed their mind either way.

Did you used to think she was guilty and now you don’t, or you aren’t sure? What changed your mind?

Also vice versa: did you used to think she was not guilty but then changed your mind to guilty? What convinced you?

The reason I’m using the term ‘not guilty’ rather than ‘innocent’ is because courts don’t prove innocence. Not guilty is a legal conclusion about whether or not the state met its burden of proof.

I’m unsure I haven’t watched the documentary. I have worked in a similar role and found the ward with extremely bitchy behaviour and cliquey. Have those working their named her to protect themselves. Job roles with positions of power teaching, health, care, emergency workers do attract some narcissistic personalities. Who are in it for the wrong reasons. They like to be admired and in control. Wayne cousins is a prime example. Her evidence of the diary where she seemed to admit didn’t look good. But was she feeling guilty for not doing her job well and being blamed. I do wonder if a scapegoat situation has gone on. I have a friend who works for the nhs and has been badly bullied in 2 roles by staff who should know better.

I do find all these protestations about circumstantial evidence a bit odd.

You come home from a weekend away. Your house has been burgled. Your security camera captured a person examining your windows. Your neighbours tell the police they saw someone matching the same description leaving your house with several large bags. The police identify this person and, on searching their home, find copies of your socials with pictures of you at home, details of your weekend plans, and Cash Converters receipts for items matching things you had stolen.

Did this person burgle your house?

The court case.

and the reporting around it.

her colleagues had previously made complaints about her and raised suspicions to management, but they were dismissed.

one was even accused of bullying Letby.

this was widely reported at the time- I wasn’t even following the case but got that from new reports

@Lougle Good grief, how can anyone be made absolutely accountable, in that case? The nurse would need to have one to one, with just one patient. Whether LL is innocent or not, I don’t know. Only she knows. But the conviction appears to be unsound.

I’m an ex nurse. Retired.

It’s nowhere near the same thing.

Why didn’t her defence team pull apart the dodgy ‘evidence’ at her trial?

She has been scapegoated and I don’t believe her conviction is safe. Lots of emotional reactions and people saying nonsense like “when you know you know” - thats not how justice works in this country. Evidence is the only factor and the evidence here is so weak I amazed she was convicted in the first place. If she is not-guilty she has had her life blown up through no fault of her own and should be heavily compensated for that.

I trust that a jury of her peers saw evidence we will never see due to the egregiousness of her crimes and the age of her victims. She was convicted. She is a child killer.

The UK justice system is not the US system we are so used to seeing blasted all over Netflix after trial conclusion or even live streamed during trial.

I say it is. People are saying the evidence is circumstantial, in that nobody saw her, beyond doubt, killing the babies. The evidence is circumstantial, deep and extensive. Almost all crimes are judged on circumstantial evidence.

Trials are about whether it all adds up to a solid case or not, they aren't dismissed because they weren't witnessed or there's no DNA.

God knows. sally Clark probably wonders the same thing

Your house is burgled. Your neighbour is filmed outside your house. All other neighbours who were outside your house are omitted from filming. Timestamps are provided, showing when your neighbour was outside - which are later proven to be inaccurate, and times your neighbour was not there omitted. The police arrest the neighbour based on a burgling study they misinterpeted, the author of which comes forward to defend your neighbour. None of your possessions are found in your neighbour's house. Your street has the highest crime rates in the city. Did your neighbour burgle your house?

Good question.

I did watch a documentary about a year ago where experts were casting doubt on the conviction.

Many were saying that they didn’t want to come out in defence due to the nature of the case. They’d be putting their necks on the line.

However many are coming out now so who knows.

I've always wondered if she was actually responsible or a scapegoat, tbch.

There have been many many miscarriages of justice in this country.

This is also a highly unusual and complicated case.

Initially when the Shoo Lee panel results came out I assumed that they were looking for far fetched but plausible alternatives to foul play. It now looks like they could find nothing to support foul play, came up with some sensible and scientifically sound analysis of the cases and it’s Dewi Evans own theories which sound biased, far fetched and implausible.

LL may have been odd, awkward, even incompetent, but you can’t convict someone of murder if there’s no evidence a murder happened in the first place.

Reposting this so that more people can watch the documentary.

Well besides anything. It’s nowhere near liked being burgled.

It’s more like some items went missing you can’t prove whether you were burgled or not or did you lose the items. Your neighbour had a key but no one saw them enter your house and none of your missing items were found in their house.

In the Lucy Letby case it’s plausible that there were no murders at all. Just bad hospital care.

But does it not worry you that the jury were told at least one of the babies had died due air being injected via the ng tube. And since the jury found LL guilty of that murder the doctor who told the jury about the method of the death has now changed his mind and said actually the air didn’t kill the baby. 🤷🏻‍♀️.

It’s farcical.

I feel sorry for the jury. They understandably took what they were told as gospel. Also the other doctor (Jayrim) his evidence about LL not summoning help has now been proven to be incorrect. His own emails at the time prove LL called him to help.

Yeah, you're right. Even more tenuous.

Not guilty. I'm not convinced those infants were murdered. The conviction is unsound.

I did say the handover notes on their own isn’t enough evidence, no one has said that’s what makes her guilty.

Are you referring to Dr Dewi Evans. He has categorically denied changing his mind on the COD of one of the victims.

Dr Evans added: ‘Mark McDonald’s observations regarding my evidence is unsubstantiated, unfounded, inaccurate.
‘His method of presenting his information reflects clear prejudice and bias.
‘I find his style most unedifying, most unprofessional. It’s highly disrespectful to the families of babies murdered and harmed by Lucy Letby.’

www.nursinginpractice.com/latest-news/expert-witness-slams-latest-claim-by-letby-lawyers-as-unfounded-and-inaccurate/

As an adult critical care nurse with over 30 years I totally agree with you. So much wrong with the trial and no medical defence. I also see that senior nurses and her manager believe that she is not guilty. Believe me that speaks volumes

https://www.judiciary.uk/judgments/r-v-letby-4/

First Court of Appeal decision is here and

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/R-v-Letby-Final-Judgment-20240702.pdf

here's the second Court of Appeal decision refusing leave to appeal.

Decisions on leave to appeal involve significant review of the first instance decision. Leave to appeal is granted if there are reasonable suspicions that the conviction is unsafe. So far, her very experienced legat team have not managed to reach that threshold.

It’s terrible and makes a mockery of the trial.

All those saying about her going back to nursing and asking would you leave your baby with her.

IF she ever gets a retrial and gets out. She would never be able to go back to nursing.

Personally there are only a small handful of people that I’d have left a tiny baby with, and whether LL is guilty or not she wouldn’t be one of them. But that doesn’t make her guilty either. I wouldn’t leave my newborn with any of you either but I doubt you’re all murderers.

If people are going to form an opinion they should do so on true facts not hearsay and silly meaningless statements.