Lucy Letby: have you changed your mind?

[Kittybythelighthouse]

I’ve been sensing a shift in opinions on the Lucy Letby case and I’m interested in hearing from people who have changed their mind either way.

Did you used to think she was guilty and now you don’t, or you aren’t sure? What changed your mind?

Also vice versa: did you used to think she was not guilty but then changed your mind to guilty? What convinced you?

The reason I’m using the term ‘not guilty’ rather than ‘innocent’ is because courts don’t prove innocence. Not guilty is a legal conclusion about whether or not the state met its burden of proof.

I am on the fence now. I was sure she was guilty originally, but a few things have come out since that have made me wonder if she is guilty after all. If she was proven innocent/acquitted, I would not be surprised. I don't think I have felt this way about anyone convicted of murder before. Something just doesn't add up about it all.

I was very concerned about the initial investigation and "evidence" used in the first case. Now hearing the protests by the expert who's work they based their case on, the fact that 3 ex bosses have been arrested for corporate manslaughter and at least one other nurse has whistleblown to say that a hospital also tried to accuse her of causing a baby's death on a day she didn't even work to cover up corporate manslaughter all points to a high chance that the guilty verdict is not sound.
They need to have a completely independent enquiry with no one with ties to the UK government past/present or the NHS.

Following for interest as behind on the news

I don't know if she's guilty or not, but I'm not happy with the safety of the conviction. Unfortunately courts don't discover absolute truth, but 'best guess'. In this case, I think they haven't done a good enough job of it.

I haven’t watched the ITV doc and don’t know a lot about it. But for years Dr Phil Hammond has been casting doubt on the safety of the conviction. He doesn’t seem like a mad conspiracy theorist, so I always thought that was odd.

Lucy was blonde, young, attractive and fun to be around on the face of it.. now she has swathes of rich men trying to prove her innocence and rewrite the narrative..

I cannot vote with that choice. Do I believe her conviction is unsafe? Yes. As to her guilt, I do not know. She did not receive a fair trial as the evidence was flawed.

My main feeling is that of sympathy for the families of the babies, as I don't think they will ever truly know the truth for certain.

So Lucy Letby is let out tomorrow and back to being a nurse and with vulnerable newborns. We’re all good with that? This isn’t realistic. More put your money where your mouth is.

Guilty. As an NHS worker I know how hard it is to provide evidence of misconduct but when you know you know. I have seen awful things (not murder) but sexual abuse and harassment with many witnesses and people got away with it becuase of who they were and what they looked like. Etc etch
There are many unstable people in the NHS and my short time there I have seen a few. Lucy and her crimes doea not surprise me one bit.

Out of interest if this is the case how does it work as a mum if your baby is in intensive care? In your view Should someone be with the baby 24-7? Is that even possible? Even so as a non medic I wouldn’t know if a nurse was doing something wrong or not

Exactly!

I agree with this. I don’t know if she’s guilty, but I’m not sure the guilty verdict is totally sound therefore it probably needs to be reviewed. Terrible for all concerned.

I think even if she were released tomorrow as an unsafe conviction.... It would be a mad decision to let her return to nursing.

I still would not want her anywhere near vulnerable patients.

I'm unsure how legal this would be? Would the registration authorities be allowed to ban her?..... If it was an unsafe conviction?

I don't think the conviction is safe. I was a NICU nurse. I can't imagine how I would defend myself in a complex cascade of accusations over a long period of time. Care isn't as linear as people think it is. Nurse A is assigned patient X but gets patients Y & Z's drugs out at the same time as patient X's so that nurses B&C don't have to leave their patient. Nurse C covers for Nurse A while they use the loo. Nurse D covers Nurse B, the emergency buzzer goes and Nurse B ends up looking after patient Y & Z while Nurse A helps with the emergency. The nurse in the Special Care room has to leave her 6 stable patients for 10 minutes while she makes up a batch of feeds. She has no idea who might have gone into the room in that time... The phone rings and patient W's parents are calling because they can't visit and need an update on their baby.

There are so many variables and don't get started on swipe card data. Someone forgets their card, so shares someone else's card. An agency nurse can't get into or out of anywhere unless a kind nurse swipes them in and out.

"2 years ago, on a Wednesday, why does the swipe card data show you doing x?" Couldn't possibly tell you.

At the very least Lucy should be struck off. I mean who would actually want to nurse ever again after all this?

Pretty much my stance too.

She'll never work as a nurse again, she would never be trusted.
She'd probably have to have a new identity and be moved abroad.

Do I think she did it. I don't know. The only person who knows whether or not she did it is lucy herself. If she did do it, she's not going to admit to it.

There were difficulties with the evidence, but Lucy is the only one who knows.

I'm convinced it's an unsafe conviction. I wouldn't speculate on her guilt as I don't know.

Yeah, she’s blonde so she’s guilty

And we shouldn’t listen to the doctors questioning the conviction because they are well paid men.

Good arguments

I don’t know either way, but I do not think it has been proved beyond unreasonable doubt, therefore the conviction is not safe

This is pretty much my thoughts too. It’s very clear that the hospital and the medical team provided appalling care but that doesn’t mean that LL was - or wasn’t guilty. I certainly have grave doubts over the safety of her convictions. I wonder if we we will ever really know what happened.

She was fired (for loss of confidence) before the trial, and struck off (because of the convictions) after the trial.

Of course if she is not guilty these are two more injustices (though reasonable at the time).

Yes, I can't imagine she would want to nurse again, particularly if it would create any risk she'd witness a death. Can you imagine the sensation and gossip she would have to deal with.

Rightly or wrongly, I doubt she'll ever nurse again. Of course if she's released on licence, there will be conditions which are bound to stop her from doing so. And her registration will have lapsed. So I'd say there's very little to worry about.

As another NHS worker, I completely agree with this. The NHS are great at making things
‘go away’ for the right people, ignoring toxic management, sexual misconduct etc. Not convinced they would be pinning multiple murders on NICU nurses. Did upper management fail to act on the suspicions reported? Yes. Is Lucy guilty? As far as I’m concerned she’s guilty as sin. And I’m horrified at the Facebook groups full of people, with zero medical knowledge and no ability for critical thinking, tripping over themselves to insist she’s absolutely completely 100% innocent.

It wouldn’t happen. It’s more a point to make to others who feel she is innocent and it’s some massive conspiracy.

Give your newborn baby/grandchild/niece to her and walk away feeling safe.