What’s the most unhinged/blatantly untrue thing you’ve been told by a health visitor?

[claudiawinklemansfringetrimmer]

Inspired by the health visitor who confidently told me yesterday that “Pom bears have more saturated fat than a Big Mac” and the ones on a birth preparation course who stated “breast fed babies are 70% more intelligent” and “they didn’t have formula in dinosaur times!” (The latter is technically true I suppose…)

My BF DD was a few weeks old and a bit slow in gaining weight. I found feeding her in the early days very hard and excruciatingly painful, I had cracked blistered nipples. The HV turned up with scales and said she would weigh her before and after feeding. After the first weigh-in and me feeding her, DD filled her nappy. The HV looked disapprovingly at me when I said weigh her before I change her and said baby doesn't like a dirty nappy. She proceeded to change her, then weighed her and gasped she has only has an ounce! I tried to tell her that there was also the difference in weight between the soiled nappy and the clean nappy but she wouldn't have it. She also thought that DD should be having the same amount of breast milk as the amount recommended in formula for a new-born.

The next HV saved my sanity. I told her I had started co-sleeping and she said I should tell you that you really shouldn't do that. But in my country, babies always sleep with their mothers. Best not to share a bed with your husband when you do it when she is very small, don't drink and don't cover her up. I moved rooms and spent the next few months with her latching on and off all night, she never cried and I barely moved although I was fast asleep. When I had my second DD I co-slept with her from day one.

I was a 22 year old health visitor if you read my previous post.

And I would never presume to “advise” anyone on anything, but support women/families in their decisions, offer evidence based information they could choose to use in making those decisions and signpost or refer to other resources if requested.

Everyone’s experience is different, we all view things from different perspectives and I hope I was both respectful and collaborative.

Mine claimed they couldn't help me with formula feeding because they promote breastfeeding, but if I needed to start formula for my mental health then I should do that.

My mental health was fine, the problem was that physically I don't make enough milk for a baby to grow on, despite having tried every medication, supplement, food and wives tale going. I was triple feeding, pumping at least 8 times a day and stuck to a cluster feeding baby for hours every afternoon. I think she was just so fully brainwashed into thinking that it's almost impossible to have a low milk supply and thought all I needed was some encouragement.

That I couldn't hold my baby to sleep, let them cry to whole getting to sleep nor feed them to sleep.

I asked her what did I do then? DC will only go to sleep being held or fed.

She said, well don't do that...

This is a genuine question. What was it that made your 21 year old self think you had the life skills and experience to provide advice to grown up, married women, who had navigated careers, providing a home, being married, and had even, perhaps, planned very wanted babies with loving husbands? Women thrown into potentially the most vulnerable period of their lives, but who nevertheless had jobs, homes, husband's and families that they managed. And that's just a description of the stable, functional ones like me.

Do you honestly think you had the life experience, beyond the book learning and theory to deal with real women who had just undertaken the biggest rite of passage of their lives? Do you not think you might be a better hv after a minimum if three years on the wards, with more life experience and possibly having raised your own family and run your own household?

Hv 1
Walked into my house commenting "ohh this is nice"
Talked about herself the entire time and showed me pictures on her phone of her teenage children.
When she found out I was a psychotherapist told me about her husband dying.
Told me not to ever lie my baby on an elevated surface, with me right beside her, in case the doorbell goes and I forget about her.
Any concerns were met with "you'd need to phone the GP"

Refused her again and was told by the receptionist "I don't think thats allowed". It bloody well is. Took the offer of an alternative HV in the hopes that I'd have a better experience.

HV 2
Commenting at the 6 month check my husband is very good at changing nappies... yes, it's a simple task that even the men folk can handle 🙄
I actually reached out to her with a concern and she didn't reply to me for 3 weeks. I regretted even trying as her advice up to that point had been shallow and patronising.
To let my colicky weeks old baby sleep in her vibrating chair thing... and risk positional asphyxiation, I don't think so.
To give her hungry baby milk, a marketing scam/angle.

To look at safe cosleeping because I will end up doing it. Never have, never will, its just personal choice.
That i will give my 6 month old chocolate buttons but to just try to limit it. I managed to resist the urge to stuff a baby with chocolate.

I've a 1 year review in a couple of weeks when my baby will be 15 months and I'm going to cancel as its just a big fat waste of time. I don't have a good laugh at this which some posters have suggested. I'm sad and weary and thankful I have support because I worry for the women that don't.

I don’t think this is quite fair. 21year olds don’t have the life experience for many jobs and yet they are out there doing them. Lots of 21 year olds hold very responsible jobs and have to do their best and find a way through. I know I did (although not medical). 21 year olds have to work! And they should be capable of learning.

the dodgy experiences I had with HVs were certainly not because of their ages.

I’m not an huge advocate for HV’s but I do think this is slightly flawed. Obviously in the other posters scenario (or maybe it was yours?) the HV did not read the room on that occasion, but I’ve never had cancer and it didn’t stop me being a good oncology nurse.. I’ve never had IV medications but I still give them etc. I don’t think it can be a pre requisite to have lived through experiences that people; healthcare or otherwise, are giving advice on, but emotional intelligence should definitely be exercised. Do you check your mortgage advisor owns a house and decide not to go with them if not? Do you check your GP has had skin cancer before getting them to check a mole? Where to draw the line on this could be endless.

At 34 I do look back on 20 year old me who was about to qualify as a nurse as quite young, but I was keen and wanted to make a difference which is more than can be said for some of those waiting to retire (plenty of stories about them too on this thread). I’m sure when I’m 64 I’ll look back at this time now and think I was young too.

No I don't but I think there is a chasm between the provision of clinical care in a supervised clinical environment and a 1:1 interface in the community, in people's homes, where the provision is largely pastoral/social and I think in those circumstances Greater life experience is required to bring nuance and empathy to what is largely a situational interaction. Having the maturity to allow enough time to arrive on time for an appointment given, not mutually negotiated, at 9am is the starting point. Having the experience to apply the questions to the situation is also important, notwithstanding being able to record information accurately and to define the role accurately when asked.

I didn’t claim to have the experience of my own family or knowledge of raising children. Having your own family does not make you better at the job. And you have no idea of my previous life experience when you made that comment.

Your perception of the role of HV is very narrow - it does not involve merely visiting “married women with families” WhenI trained in 1980s the role encompassed the whole lifespan, we included elderly people, and those discharged from hospital.

My role was to enable people to make healthy choices, to assist in navigating and accessing NHS and other resources, to empower people to live their lives to the full potential. I was trainied in reading critiquing and assimilating healthcare research in order to offer most up to date and evidenced based information for people should they choose to use it in decisions about their health.

I enabled parents to set upsupport groups for new parents (my patch was a new estate and many people felt isolated) and breast feeding support groups with community midwives and breastfeeding experts attending if requested. In conjunction with community midwives and physios we set up pre and post natal exercise classes. I visited secondary school as part of PHSE classes to talk about health and personal care. I lvisitediNICU and PICU staff, and parents of babies there, to establish therapeutic relationships for when their babies came home and act as a single point of contact for families at a difficult time. I liaised with GPs to identify children who had medical needs and to organise and offer support.

I worked with social services to support those families who were struggling, and in safeguarding issues when sometimes early intervention could prevent a crisis.
I helped families in poverty obtain grants and benefits, and navigate the benefits system. I helped signpost needy families to resources and organisations that could support them if they wished.
No I did not think I could know more than the “ grown up married women with homes and loving husbands” you so patronisingly quote more than once, but I was young, enthusiastic, altruistic and enabled by the training to enable people to work towards physical, social and emotional wellbeing should they wish to use my service.

When my grandmother was diagnosed with Crohn's, her consultant told her this! Mind you it was 30 years ago, so research might have moved on...

That old chestnut - I remember that. See also black/brown women need less pain relief in labour (because black women don’t feel pain in the same way and brown women just make a lot of noise).

But according to my HV team dangerously ignorant casual racism never happened, it was all in my imagination. Then we wonder why maternal outcomes are worse in some groups.

The "Registered Health Visitor" title was removed from statute law in 2002 when the Nurses, Midwives and Health Visitors Act 1997 was updated by The Nursing and Midwifery Order 2001.

Health visitors, along with other specialist community public health nurses like school nurses and occupational health nurses, are now registered as Specialist Community Public Health Nurses (SCPHNs).

Generally trusts like to sponsor nurses and midwives to do the further training to be a SCPHN after they have a some years in practice. In fact the trust I worked for wouldn’t shortlist someone without four year’s experience post registration.

Following registration as a SCPHN, nurses are required to do further training in their particular area. Sadly, identifying safeguarding issues is a major part of a job involving supporting families. Therefore training in this area is very thorough.

All nurses and midwives, are taught to work with evidence based information. Your HV has a strict regime to follow, set down by their trust. There are questions they must ask and boxes that require ticking.

Just posting for information.

I’ve worked with 45 year olds who would struggle with this though and 25 year olds who would nail it. Like in everything, sadly one size doesn’t fit all. Unfortunately there aren’t an abundance of people wanting to do it so I don’t think imposing an age limit would happen (or solve a problem). Personally I think they should abolish the whole thing and redistribute the funding into the midwives who can also do the necessary checks.

@Lifelover16 Having your own family does not make you better at the job

I don’t agree, at the very least It gives you a bit of empathy with the gruelling reality (unless you are a sociopath).

The graduates joining my practice are some of the brightest and most motivated on the market. Never in a million years would I send a 21/22 year old out to fly solo with a client and they are not dealing with potentially vulnerable women and babies. They spend years as part of a team and working with supervision (actual supervision, not remote tick box supervision) before they are trusted to manage clients alone.

I’m not sure what the current requirements are but it used to be the case that NCT and La Leche required all trainees (as breastfeeding counsellor) to have actually breastfed a baby themselves because experiencing the challenges was considered essential. The training was lengthy and included a long period of “shadow” support alongside a more experienced practitioner before flying fully solo. This is the norm in most jobs, its the norm in most clinical settings. Community midwives I know had to have several years nursing plus a midwifery qualification and team tagging before they could see women on their own. The district nurse I saw a year ago described similar.

At 22 years old bluntly you are not ready to fly solo with vulnerable women who may be facing difficulties. Its no wonder so many women describe the interview process as tickbox with no real value, especially when the tickbox process doesn’t include eye contact or actual conversation.

Every time this subject comes up posters join who self describe as HVs to be defensive and accuse women of simply lying when they describe bad experiences. This is true on other forums/groups I’ve frequented.
Bad experiences of midwives or doctors are generally balanced or outweighed by good experiences.

However much training is offered on the course its useless if it isn’t (a) balanced with experience (b) actually used.

I was also an extremely premature and sick baby 35 years ago (parents were called in overnight to say goodbye 3x). I'm here despite my (employed) parents living in a council house. I must be even more of a medical marvel that I thought 😂What tosh from the hv!

I did the job before and after having my family @C8H10N4O2 and each person’s experience of having a family or is unique. One cannot generalise your own experiences onto another person, it may be totally different, and you have to remain professional.
6 years of nurse training surely gives some experience of communicating with individuals, having dealt with people at the most difficult and upsetting times gives a good grounding.
Admittedly I trained in 1980 but the university course included various placements, mentorship and a period of supervised practice before setting out alone. And the profession also involves assessing community health needs as well as those of individuals. Although an autonomous and fully qualified practitioners, regular clinical supervision is necessary

I think the discussion about training/education is derailing the point of the thread, so I’m going to leave it here.

👏🏼 I honestly want to know what they're expecting, apart from having unicorn babies!

It seems like the golden standard is exclusively breastfeed, no pumping, don't co sleep ever, get into a good routine but get out and about as well, your mental health should be intact, breastfeed until a year but stop immediately.

Out of the mums I know, we're usually either breastfeeding and cosleeping, formula feeding and baby sleeps independently OR some mix where we're all feeling guilty and pressured about something. Babies are all happy and healthy and we should all give ourselves more credit but I will likely be googling some worry over nothing a few minutes from now anyway.

each person’s experience of having a family or is unique

That wasn’t my point - my point was that experience can bring a level of additional insight and empathy which cannot be taught.

My first HV had nothing like 6 years of nursing experience - she had gone straight from school-nurse-training-HV training on a continuous path - her only nursing experience was as a trainee nurse. She was 22 or 23 having left school at 18 (she spent half the first visit talking about how she had missed out on the new graduate scheme for nursing which apparently would have given her a better salary). She could not have built up six years of nursing experience.

If as one pp suggests its commoner now to expect at least four years nursing experience after graduating and before training as a specialist in the community then that sounds like a significant improvement.

Training and development for HVs is very relevant to the thread since so many of the problems are a direct consequence of poor knowledge coupled with poor communication skills and a lack of meaningful supervision.

Thrust a leaflet on weaning onto solids at me when DS wasn't even four months old. I told her I'd keep it safe but that was going to EBF until six months, and she replied, 'What?! Nobody does that!' She did seem to be strangely anti-breastfeeding and was amazed that my 91st-centile enormo-baby was EBF. She also said 'Oh - you're one of those mothers...' when she found out I was still feeding him at his two-year check 😆

I agree with another poster that training and education is fundamental to providing a high quality HV Service.

You refer to the fact that autonomous and fully qualified practitioners need regular clinical supervision.

At the I formal stage of my complaint about my HV, I asked her boss what the role of the HV was and was told that one of the important things they did was to make sure mothers spoke to their babies enough for then to develop speech. The clinical supervision available there was clearly terrific. I would imagine that a 23 year old would be less likely to try to influence that sort of view coming from her much older boss than a 40 year old mother with ten years' experience on the wards.

Very similar to my experience on both counts.

I’m curious about what clinical supervision looks like for HV’s. From my experience of supervising nurses, they tend to be used to a case management style of supervision which is more of a tick box risk assessment exercise rather than a reflective / exploratory process. Again this likely comes down to systemic NHS pressures and ridiculous caseloads. The whole system needs to change.

Mine at my sons two year checks told me at his 2 year check that he was going to be severely overweight when he started school.

All because at 2 he was just under the 91st centile. She didn't listen that he was 10lb at birth and as he was born before his due date he was off the centile chart. So from that to under 91st at two did not make him an overweight child

Anyway he starts school in a fortnight is just under 75th for weight and is 75th in height. Overweight my arse, the kid eats like a pigeon and runs around like road runner for hours every day.