What would a land value tax look like instead of council tax?

[Newmeagain]

Just saw something about this in the news. Concerned about potential impact on home owners in London who may not necessarily be wealthy - ie no other assets to sell and not a huge income.

does anyone know?

I think we should stop the loop holes in the current system.
No exemptions on council tax for empty properties.
No discount for single occupancy of larger properties.
Students or the landlord should pay council tax.

I think you overestimate how sophisticated the land registry data is.

Of course it is possible in theory to have a very unsophisticated system which sets the price for a street. However I think there will be uproar if the little two bed miners cottage slap bang in the middle of my road is valued in the same band as the multi million pound mansion with two separate annexes (bungalows) a few houses down.

@era
I have access to Parish Online - the public data is really really good and up to date.
The 'share across' set works really well
we use it in rural areas
primarily to spot unregistered land
but also for evaluating building on gardens

Parish Online can't value a house.

Anyway the point remains in any event that any attempt to introduce this sort of extremely costly brand new tax will mean the party in power stands no chance of successful reelection. As a result it won't happen. The only way it might happen is if Corbyn can gain enough momentum to gain power.

Labour can't even maintain its position on a winter fuel allowance

My understanding of council tax isn’t great but this sounds utterly pointless. Council tax is basically a SEN and elderly care tax now. Why would somebody pay a higher rate toward a tax they may minimally benefit from just because their house is bigger?

Well because it becomes the law..

But it won't

Well yes but it would be unfair, nonsensical and I suspect there would be uproar!

And then a u turn

Due to cuts and caps it is true that the vast bulk of council tax goes on that.

So how do we square the circle

The problem isn't that the land registry is unsophisticated; it's that property based wealth accumulation is entrenched via long unchallenged mechanisms in a country in thrall to its aristocracy. But, maybe things can change. I'm disappointed with starmer in lots of ways but I will say for him that he's not afraid to go at it against interests that are so previously left alone the great British public perceive them as being almost part of the landscape.

If he can get a second term, who knows.

it makes my blood boil. When you buy a house you pay stamp duty and then council tax every year and people repeatedly keep raising this nonsense. There are some issues with bandings but that’s a council level issue - where I live a band h pays 3200 a year, d pays 1500. I pay the h band but I don’t get more because of my “expensive” house. I get the same services. Why should i now pay even more a year, for nothing more?

It's a model of progressive taxation.

I guess you either agree with it or you don't. Personally I can't see the logic of regressive taxation but ymmv.

Why should the landlord pay?

why should single occupiers not get a discount?

Why should the landlord pay?

Well it is kind of bonkers to tax citizens based on the notional value of an asset they don't own.

@Pogpog21
SDLT would cease with annual land tax.

Its on the freeholder, not the tenant

Yes I totally agree

they’ve already raised stamp duty in April

The problem isn't that the land registry is unsophisticated; it's that property based wealth accumulation is entrenched via long unchallenged mechanisms in a country in thrall to its aristocracy

Yep

i'm in canada; my property tax is based on my house value. the money from my property tax pays; schools/hospitals/fire/ambulance/and health care program. i also pay additional fees to the city for water/sewer/garbage pick up and a few other things every 3 months. simply buying gas/diesel for the car/truck includes taxes towards road maintenance just mentioning that as i feel taxed to death at times.
rate; the city i live in is considered to have a high tax rate, i pay 3.5k on a 600k house per year as a senior. there are three rates of taxation; second home (higher rate), primary home (middle rate) senior over 65 (lower rate) using your social security information for accurate data.
the information is collected by a provincial body the bc home assessment. most properties are photographed and valued ONLINE no password just address; realtors use the info, insurance companies use the info banks use the info.
at a certain point it is based on home sales, if two houses on my street sell for a high price my evaluation goes up, my taxes go up, i've seen the rate of tax hold but never go down.
it seems to work well for paying for city services.
annually i pay provincial and federal taxes (combined).

Here in NZ we don't seem to have any trouble at all coming up with ratings valuations for houses. We don't have hordes of surveyors either. I think people are overthinking the difficulty of this.

I understand that but how is that fair for people who have just paid stamp duty vs whose who (in this hypothetical scenario) could buy and not pay it?happy to pay a land tax if I can have a refund of my stamp duty land tax!

So one street in central London has over 100 houses on it - ranging from £3m-£50m. Some of the big houses have been converted to flats and at one junction there’s a small council estate with 3 blocks of maybe 8 flats each - some privately owned. Zoopla can not deal with that street and the valuations are way off!

I also think the rate system mentioned in other countries covers much more as well that we cover in general taxation so that should be accounted for (but probably wouldn’t be)

stamp duty needs reform and council tax needs reform but I just don’t trust our politicians to put this in tbh

It's actually very simple.

Once you eliminate a local sales tax as bonkers unworkable (which probably makes it the #1 option in official circles) you are left with three options:

1. No tax whatsoever and people can just pay for whatever services they use directly.
2. Tax people
3. Tax property

Of the remaining non-bonkers options, taxing property is easiest because - apart from a few rare exceptions - houses don't move around the country like people.

Assuming you have a "register of people" (we don't) then given how many people move around in chaotic fashion, you will simply end up with more and more uncollected years and people. It would need to be a system ten times as large as the Universal Credit system, and capable of working in real time.

The most efficient and fairest system is the one no one will ever vote for, and that is a base figure for the property with a modifier based on occupancy. However that will be spun as a "tax on children" at one end, and a "tax on granny" at the other end. With the obvious weakness that we know people "move" children around for the best school anyway.

However this debate isn't really going to progress until more people learn what tax is and how it works and why it's needed. Because the last few years have seen a concerted - and surprisingly effective - campaign in the media to pretend that a world with no taxes is within our grasp. All we need to do is be brave enough to hope to dare to imagine

Go on - it's easy if you try

Agree with you there. Although I think a big issue is that politicians don’t really understand tax either! And tax legislation is so badly written in places.

Ultimately you need someone who is willing to look long term at this and our politicians think in 5 year cycles

Although I think a big issue is that politicians don’t really understand tax either!

Oh they understand it perfectly. It's how they turn your money into "their" money. Bother literally and figuratively. It's taxpayers who are a bit slow on the uptake - what with actually wanting something in return. And local authorities are mere shallow tribute acts to that outlook.